Morus’ Saturday Slant: Table Talk
January 10th, 2009
The Menu Has Changed
There once was a time that Britain had a fairly straighforward choice of restaurant. Our beloved class structure, in which every Earl and urchine knew his place, and each understood the choice of fare that was offered. They were simpler days, before we infused our gastronomy with foreign flavours, and yielded in silent homage (rhymes with fromage) to the culinary imperatives of Continental cuisine. Sadly those days are gone, and the Blonde and I this week found ourselves in two eateries that encapsulate everything that has perhaps gone wrong in the professional British kitchen.
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Islington first, a borough of the capital best described as ‘Primrose Hill if they let everyone in’ - the vanity not quite underwritten by the chequebooks that now ensconse themselves to the South and West, and a diner that once was a family favourite of ours reminding us both of happier times. It’s not that the ‘New Clause IV’ doesn’t act the part - much play is made of its glory years - but this only underpins the gloom of realising that potential has been wasted by slovenly management and a lack of clear direction.
We started with salad that didn’t even have the decency to pretend that it hadn’t started life at Sainsbury’s, and on to the main courses - her cottage pie clearly the product of a mind only vaguely acquainted with the rustic world, and my ‘Rooster in Reisling’ betraying its European parentage (as that miserable dish Coq au Vin) by the false anglicised estuary English with which it rambled its ingredients and virtues from an only-too-familiar menu. In the winceful glare of 1990’s faux-brow Britart, we sat miserably wondering what had happened to the old pub classics - Toad in the Hole, Welsh Rarebit, Bubble & Squeak - gravy-drowned monuments to a way of life that would have never tolerated the careful, elf-n-safety notices about calorie count, units per glass, and lactose intolerance that covered the back pages of the menu like roadworks on the M4.
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The ‘New Clause IV’ took over an old Victorian pub called ‘The Kier Hardy’, a staple of the men who used to be called the salt of the earth. Ours was £50-a-kilo Danish flecked sea salt, and desicated the last drops of whatever atmosphere this grand old building had ever had. This was one of the first restaurants in London to become ‘Non-smoking’, and it still felt like it. I’m tempted to suggest that only a 60-a-day gluesniffer would have the requisite damage to his palate to find the food digestable, but that would be unfair. On the gluesniffer, I mean - the genius who concocted this stale excuse for an offering would make our inveterate drug-user an International Master of Wine by comparison. More than could be said for our sommellier.
It feels a little uncharitable to criticise the staff, who erred (and they did err) on the side of overzealously feigned interest in our opinions. Yet having never having thought to act upon them I’m not sure that uncharitable is out of order on this occasion. There is nothing worse than the bungling fussiness of those who claim to serve you - they should endeavour to stay out of your way as much as possible, though be always on hand to make sure that things run smoothly. If that sounds demanding and difficult, it’s because it is. You would hope that after 11 years training, and the realisation that a job isn’t for life that a bit more effort would have been spent on getting that balance right. I rarely cancel the tip before I’ve reached the dessert menu, but three courses already had me reaching for my wallet, and dreams of a swift escape.
I would have unreadily forgiven this dreary trip down memory lane, passed it off as a case of ineptitude rather than malice, had the bill not been so utterly staggering. It is one thing to rip-off your customers openly, but the intricacies of our cheque made me begin to sympathise with those city bankers. If paying for dinner has this many complex line items, how much more complex must credit derivative swaps be? I have never minded paying through the nose for what I imbibe and shovel through my mouth, but the stealth and subterfuge of the peripheral charges (cover charge, 12.5% service charge, surcharge for tap water, and a line for gratuities) epitomised everything that was wrong about the whole experience. It was smug in its assumption that you wouldn’t notice, before dropping your plastic onto the tablecloth. Conceited, narcissistic, arrogant, and shameless - whilst the food was forgiveable, the wine tolerable, the cost hefty but not beyond all decency, what let this place down was the complete wilful ignorance that this was anything other than wonderful - rather than a dinner by numbers - and that remains unforgiveable.
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Cross-town, and another renovated outfit - ‘Bullingdon’ over in swanky Notting Hill. Not here the preachy vegan option, or the reminder that a second drink would make you ineligable to drive. No more mockney faux-brow sculpture here - rather the clumsy emulation of country grandeur that only South West London, with its spray-can-applied mud on the Chelsea Tractor, can truly manage. Back in the day, by which I mean before the new Boy Wonder took over the kitchen, this was a fusty old joint called ‘The Establishment’. The sort of brandy-and-cigars den that could have conceivably hired Chelsea Pensioners and retired Colonels who saw Amritsar to occupy the armchairs by the fire, if there hadn’t been a waiting list of them to do so anyway. Plush, civilised, proud - the sort of place where dropping your haitches was a more egregious breach of etiquette than dropping your britches. Now, chrome and pastel colours adorned the walls, and the chandeliers have been replaced by energy-saving light bulbs.
Somewhat out of character, the Blonde and I shared our starter - organic foie gras terrine with glazed organic pears and a walnut-and-cinnamon paste. The wine was fair trade, and approved by the Soil Association. I can’t deny, it was a pleasant change from the stodge we had suffered in Islington, but the false humility of the new decor was completely dischordant with the plummy richness of what was on offer. It is a pet hate of mine that organic is used to describe any foodstuff not made exclusively of PVC, and whilst nowhere near as cloyingly intrusive as what we had experienced in North London, the faint smuggery of the fair-trade, knitted-by-Peruvian-organic-llamas menu was an unnecessary distraction from what had the makings of a decent meal.
The mains were British gastro, though I should warn you that even the most traditional of dishes (the Beef Wellington) came with mashed potatoes preenishly-drizzled with balsamic vinegar and truffle oil. The menu was decent, although much of it lacked the sort of substance that great kitchens produce, with the best offering being a Swedish smorgasbord which proved to be quite an education. The liberating experience of pickled herrings with gravlax and ‘Janssons Frestelse‘ at lunch aside, we left with a sense of not having quite had our appetites satisfied, yet having overdone it on food that was rich beyond requirement.
The service was mixed, at best. No clumsy mistakes, and one could forgive the discomfort of staff who had clearly been trained by the ancien regime here, and were trying to forget their silver service drills to fit in with the open collar breeziness that is the preserve of the young and the worriless who invest in vanity projects like this. Having been physically-harrassed at our previous dinner, a little more space was welcome, but the absentmindedness and invisibility of our waiters almost implied that they had better places to be. I know it is usual for staff to moonlight at other (no doubt better-paying) jobs but this customer doesn’t like to actually see it in their eyes as they read out the Plats du Jour. Our bill was another complicated affair - did we, or did we not qualify for the pre-Theatre price? Was there a discount for only having 2 courses from the 3 course set menu? Clearly the maitre d’ was eager to give us at least our wine for free, but one suspects that the freebee culture is now under the scrutiny of Chef, and only time will tell whether he is prepared to stick to high prices that are a customer-deterrent, or whether undercutting the competition is going to be the way that this becomes a flawed-favourite for the whole city.
Restaurants are in a mess. They no longer know what their target demographic looks like, and the desire to be all things to all diners is making for a confused and unappealing set of choices. Food needs to be simple rather than showy, well-crafted rather than disdainful, and at whatever price is reasonable for that dish. Too many restaurants set their prices before their menus, and it is leading to the twin fallacies of clumsy economies on otherwise good dishes and overpriced filth-masquerading-as-haute-cuisine. Decor should work on the basis of including anyone prepared to pay their money, rather than hoping that your customers will feel obliged to blend into the wallpaper and drapes. Service should be barely noticeable - unobtrusive when it needs to be involved, always available when it is invited. Those who have their wages paid need to remember who their customers are, and be responsive to their actual needs, rather than imagined expectations. The bill can be whatever you want it to be, but it needs to be honest and transparent. Ultimately, the food will always drift in and out of fashion, decor and staff see faster turnover than apples at the hands of a German pastry chef, but the goodwill of customers is a hard-won thing. If you get them through the door, they should want to come back next time around. A few restaurateurs should remember that - especially if they decide to revamp the dining room. I don’t know where Londoners will feel most comfortable eating, but if this is what’s on offer, I suspect a great many will simply stay home. Right now, a Hawaiin burger sounds rather appealing.
Morus, with apologies to A A Gill
MessageSpace Advertising
Really, Morus?
1 Chiddst in time.
I’ll get me coat!
I thought I couldn´t really be first….. Not with you hanging round, Peter. Waiting for your coat and all….
Not sure that this one really works, Morus - though it is very clever, of course. It is saying (I think) that the Labour Party is not what the Labour Party used to be; and the Tory Party is not what the Tory Party used to be. They are both trying very hard to be something that they are not, and the customer is paying the bill.
Having said that, what then? I expect other more wide-awake Peebies will find more in the article, and I look forward to their interpretations and comments.
Presumably the Lib Dems are just good solid home cooking….
Totally OT, but the Guardian maintains its standards:
“Murray puts Federer in a spine
Cricket: Andy Murray recorded another win over Roger Federer to reach the Qatar Open final”
Is 2009 the year of the maniac…? Certain behaviour would suggest so…!
Mike Smithson, P4T is a newbie - like moi: to ask her predictions (about Gordoom) in 2007/8 should be considered nulkulturny (or whatever the Slavic-expression is)!
PTP: It is correctly typed colour! [Spealt is not recognised by Firefox's GB dictionary!]
S&S: good to see you back! Happy New Year my Septic-friend!
And good luck to Andy - “I’m a miserable Sweatie” - Murray in 2009. Here is one English-Democrat that does not wish you ill-bode!
Gosh, I must be bored…!
Great critique - yet again - Morus! Restaurants [sic] are in a mess. They no longer know what their target demographic looks like….
We are all truly Gabbled! Presentation has no meaning unless there is underlying substance. But I digress….
O/T, but last thread…!
Stars and Stripes, there are obviously Democrat supporting pundits on mainstream media channels…. There are conservatives as major anchors on CNN and MSNBC - any liberals in such positions on Fox?
by Socrates January 9th, 2009 at 10:48 pm
Hannity and Colmes comes to mind, though I have given-up on FoxNews for the past couple of years. [Susan Estrich is GILF IMHO too!]
The critic is being too harsh. Both of these establishments have devotees for whom they cater supremely well and their marketing is such that they are able to attract many non-foodies, while many of those who stay at home could not be tempted out in any circumstances. Foodies may sneer at their pretentions, but more upscale venues are likely to struggle badly in the current economic climate.
Last thread….
re 383. My wish is that we should reach 1,000,000 comments by March 23rd 2009 - the day the site celebrates its fifth birthday. At the current rate we are just going to fall short.
<b.by Mike Smithson January 10th, 2009 at 2:51 am
Who knows…? Cometh-the-day, cometh-the-servlet/b>. Just need to have an idea of the URL to post to…!
Last thread….
re 383. My wish is that we should reach 1,000,000 comments by March 23rd 2009 - the day the site celebrates its fifth birthday. At the current rate we are just going to fall short.
<b.by Mike Smithson January 10th, 2009 at 2:51 am
Who knows…? Cometh-the-day, cometh-the-servlet. Just need to have an idea of the URL to post to…!
[OK, me can't type. Thank Sun-MicroSystems for their Java parser/complier!]
9 - Mr Smithson’s solution is obvious. He should hold a thread on the betting opportunities in Nick Clegg’s remarks about Gaza. The target could be met two months early.
Gravad lax: raw salmon cured in salt, sugar, and dill
Janssons frestelse: casserole made of floury potatoes, onion, pickled sprats and double cream
Mmmm… yummy.
By the way, is not Coq au Vin prepared using red (how appropriate) wine. Riesling is a white wine.
A fantastic post Morus - well done and what makes this site worth reading!
Morus you are deliciously crazy.
Ps I would have recommended Soames’ Pie shop, but i hear they’re out of stock.
Maybe you, the Blonde, or both, should do more cooking at home.
Well, I recommend St John in Clerkenwell, which is how Conservatism should be dished up: traditional policies presented plainly and expertly cooked, presented in a way that demonstrates the chef’s philosophy and skill.
I don’t come on to this site, to read something literate and amusing. I come on to this site to read the incoherent ramblings of a load of political loonies.
re 18 Great Coldstone - glad you could help this morning!
11 Mike should check to see if Martin Day really is allowed to post as he was making comments eleswhere that he was still banned from PB.com (I read so on here yesterday). Mike could also e mail him to tell him he is back. The torrent of LD’s are doomed messages would be of enormous help to the number of posts!
21 Excellent and entertaining post Morus. I’m glad that you didn’t do a spoof on a BNP-style restaurant. I shudder to think what that would be like.
re 20 Martin has been clear to post since the restrictions were lifted nine days ago. It’s up to him. A lot of Martin’s contributions are good and constructive even if many do not agree with them.
22 Thanks Mike, and Martin also adds a touch of humour(well for me anyway)
A very enjoyable read - brilliantly crafted. I’ll probably spend my next few dinners out imagining which political party the restaurant/pub most closely resembles. Knowing my luck, any of them!
I hear there’s a termagant in the East End called Effinguimmie Grant who’s opening a chain of take-aways specialising in pork knuckle doused in vinegar which she reckons will do a roaring trade in the recession - already nearly the market leader in Barking…
Martin Day is back see
Comment 901,072
23 You must remember that Martin is clearly mentally unhinged and if it suits him to pretend that he is still ” banned ” from here he will continue to claim so .
27. If you and he were trapped together on a desert island, what rich amusement that would bring…
Meanwhile, today’s Labour gimmick is…
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/4210088/National-intern-scheme-to-help-graduates-through-the-recession.html
There was also this comment last night which I am almost certain was from Martin
http://politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/01/09/what-about-an-81-bet-on-gords-approval-ratings/#comment-901052
27 Let him who is without sin cast the first stone! I seem to remember a large number of your posts don’t actually resonate with reason
The Telegraph today (Jan 10):
“With the credit crisis causing thousands of job losses in white-collar professions, ministers are engaged in crisis talks with major employers in a bid to find posts for the 400,000 students due to graduate from universities this summer.”
The Times on Thursday (Jan 8):
“Mr Brown acknowledged that rising unemployment was “tough” but insisted that jobs were being lost all over the world, while 200,000 jobs were being created every month in Britain. ”
Problem solved. All employed by the end of September.
Next problem, please!
Do Labour PPCs really have nothing better to do than post on blogs that are barely advertised?
I bought a Lancashire Hotpot from Mr Marks’ establishment the other day and when I looked closely at the packet, it contained GARLIC!! - and when I took it back they couldn’t understand when I was upset. Clearly the country has gone to the chiens in a big way - and we haven’t noticed it happening.
..33 whoops.. for last “when” read “why”. Sorry.
31 Gordon Brown’s pronouncements are akin to that of of a prisoner in the dock. At first the defendant denies responsibility for anything pleading not gulity M’Lud, but gradually after skilful questioning by the prosecution, the veneer of deception and dissembling is stripped away, and the truth is there for all to see. As so it will be with Gordon Brown.
Great article, Morus. I have to say that my pint of Greene King IPA, with two eggs, chips and three slices of thick ham at Wetherspoons yesterday, for £3.98 (no tips, 10 minutes waut for food)was wonderful.
Clever piece, Morus. I managed to read the whole thing as an eccentric restuarant review with just passing references to politics (well, I’d not really woken up yet, that’s my excuse), just vaguely thinking I’d not realised Morus was such a young fogey; the penny finally dropped and I re-read it with enjoyment. Yes, let’s hear about the LibDem and BNP establishments…
For anyone who’s curious what’s happening in the pb.com Diplomacy game, David Roe and Hurst Llama are rolling up the map of Europe in brisk time. The rest of us are squabbling idly among ourselves.
36 I am confused. Yesterday you posted about your wonderful lunch, but then told us you were too ill to work.
What sort of illness is it that allows you to be off work but living like a king?
36 - … a classic LD value meal, I’d say. No ponsy bottled lager (v NuLab)
38 - brain tumour, Barry, if you must know.
thomthumb @ 33………..what! you’ve not heard about those wild garlic fields in Freckleton? A true Lanky ingredient.
For you Southern softies Freckleton is near Newton with Scales.
On topic, nice piece Morus, and apologies in advance for a lengthy post.
There was an article in a paper last week which I didn’t read but did see the headline which was to the effect that the next election will be determined by a few thousand people (40,000 is a figure that springs to mind). The kind of problems Morus implies are besetting the two main parties are a result of (a) desperately chasing these swing voters in marginal constituencies and (b) trying very hard not to actively alienate anyone else who might vote for them. The result is a set of policies that are - or appear to be - traditional-light, with added bells and whistles to attract the floating voters based on whatever the latest issues of most concern to that group is.
Two problems there. Firstly, the policies to address the issues of most concern do not necessarily fit in easily with the parties’ traditional stance. Secondly, it becomes unclear what the parties stand for as they’re constantly switching topic and have no clear theme - or if they do have a clear theme, they find it difficult to get the message across. Much easier to bash the opposition.
Above all, it comes down to a lack of self-confidence, and self-confidence is an essential part of leadership. I’m not at all surprised that Brown’s ratings have improved since October, when he switched to a much more dynamic style, started to appear to know what he wanted to do and got on with it. That engenders trust. Whether he keeps it depends on whether he leads the country to somewhere it wants to go.
On the other side, there’s still something of a crisis of confidence in the Conservatives. This is a point Matthew Parris picked up on in his most recent column, though he phrases it differently. After three election defeats, the party had just about accepted that it needed to change (at a minimum) the way it put its message and policies across, and quite possibly those messages themselves. The problem was that was never really accepted as many of those policies were being copied by Labour under Blair and they were winning the elections, so it wasn’t the policies per se that were losing the party support. Still, all went well enough (Summer 2007 apart), for the first two years - and then the world changed. Suddenly, Labour has reverted very much to type and there is a space in the market for traditional Tory values of prudence and good housekeeping. That’s set off a whole new round of reconsidering whether the New Conservative approach is the right way. And with that self-doubt, the public’s not sure again. The key questions for 2009 are will Brown’s new-found leadership produce results on the ground, and to what extent will Cameron revert to a traditional Tory economic policy?
On the latter point, I think the balance of tax-cutters against spending-increasers has swung back far enough in the Tories’ favour to make ‘getting the public finances back in order’ a saleable - and necessary - message. One thing the public really doesn’t like is being mislead, even by omission. Brown has outbid Cameron in terms of public spending; Cameron should therefore get out of what he should portray as an irresponsible game, turn the tables and make a virtue of restricting public spending.
good read
38 - Ruddy hell, Barry. You need to get in touch with your sensitive side!
In the great political-parties-as-restaurants metaphor, I think the BNP are probably a greasy spoon cafe in east London. A lot of people might feel like eating there in their guiltiest moments, but at the end of the day, it’s full of disgruntled truck drivers in stained white vests. The menu is full of enough unpleasant grease to have a damaging effect on the body politic.
Interesting article Morus. “the Blonde and I this week”, Are you Scottish?
Someone linked to the Matthew Parris article in the Times last night, and reading your article today, I think you are both hinting at the same thing.
O/T yet another example of the Met behaving badly…
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article5484446.ece
Well written.
The reseraunt trade in the UK is a pretty ghastly mess. Some of the top end places and world beating - the problem is the mid and lower tiers.
A particular problem in London seems to be the belief that putting your prices up to (insert celebrity chef brand here) levels and a few flourishes on the food will make you successful. Sorry to disappoint, but if I am going to pay £15 for a mian course, I will go for the real deal. Chez Bruce or Rosemary Lane are actually worth that kind of money.
If I want bangers-and-mash in the pub, I want (a) edible food and (b) prices that don’t make me want to try and make a reservation at Claridges instead.
Incidently, in Inslington, try the Angel. The staff and owners seem to change a fair bit, but the pub itelf is relatively unspoilt - lots of lovely old wood. The food is generally edible.
James Forsyth over at the Coffee House Blog reports on Vince Cable’s comments in the Times.
Cable: We’ll only work with Labour after the next election if it is the largest party
“Cable tells Alice Thomson and Rachel Sylvester that: “It would be arrogant for us to choose one or other. Whoever gets the largest number of seats . . . whether it is Conservative or Labour, we will work with either.””
I’m starving… can’t wait for the Euro-elections.
49, I do hope the Tories get a workable, or even a stonking, majority.
Morus: I was at least halfway through until I figured out what the hell you were talking about. Until then, I just thought you’d lost your mind.
So, er, well done I guess.
Sod all this poncy restaurant crap. I thought you’d be into a nice middle-of-the-road caff. There’s a great greasy spoon round my way, Hallam’s, where you can get a decently-stuffed bird for ‘no more than thirty’ pounds.
Great value at twice the price.
Morus, great piece. Simple solution. Leave the fake plastic world in the city and move to the real world in the country. The “air kissing cafe society” so beloved of those with only 1000 close friends covered in fake tan hiding plastic surgery scars is like the world of New Labour and Brown Central economics, a sugar coated pill which when one bites into it reveals the natural ingredients, total shite!
Happily after taking my mother shopping in Lidl’s and Morrisons followed by a quick skirt round our favourite “Pound shop” in one of our nearby towns a mere 18 miles away, we will repair to the old village pub at Shandwick sitting just off the A9 for lunch. Mother usually has the chef’s home made steak and ale pie so she can take a doggie bag for our Jack Russell and I will have one of venison casserole, haddock or scampi with our weekly doze of chunky chips and a heap of crunchy vegetables, washed down with a glass of milk and a pint of Kronenberg shandy respectively and all for the princely sum of £20. The enormous plateful we well both receive is such that not only does the dog go hoopla when we return home but that even by mid evening, there is no room for anything more than perhaps some cheese and biscuts.
I am sure all our other rural based members can narrate stories of their village pubs providing equally good and inexpensive food!!
@51:
Cable stating the bloody obvious, but it’s good to see some kind of confirmation that they won’t attempt to prop up Labour under all circumstances.
51.”I do hope the Tories get a workable, or even a stonking, majority.”
So do I MD, I have had the coalition lark up here already….
49 ChristinaD - I wonder whether Nick Clegg approved that line. It’s a pretty specific commitment.
On topic - yes, very clever, Morus! Could have been shorter…
Nick P @ 37. It must be those of us involved in active politics. I first read it as a review as well. Doh!
A great piece by Morus which I really enjoyed.
54.”Cable stating the bloody obvious, but it’s good to see some kind of confirmation that they won’t attempt to prop up Labour under all circumstances.”
Martin, I think that Cable has made a mistake by letting this hare out of the traps. Could be damaging for the Libdems before a GE IMHO, especially if it is already looking like the vote might polarise between the two main parties.
Does anybody know if Barry is still planning to run in Bedford? He’s been quiet here and his blog has not been updated since August.
re 59. Barry announced a few weeks ago, here on PB, that he wouldn’t be standing in Bedford. He’s come out for the Tory.
37/57. It was only when I got to the ex-pub now called the New Clause IV, and that I remembered that this was a Morus piece, that I worked out how he was going on about what he was going on about.
60 - thanks, Mike. No comment.
56.”49 ChristinaD - I wonder whether Nick Clegg approved that line. It’s a pretty specific commitment.”
Richard, when I posted that link, I did think about asking that very question. What is odd, is the fact that the Libdems still can’t seem to find the right way to deal with this kind of political chatter about the third party and coalitions.
Annabel Goldie played a blinder during the 2007 Scottish elections, the Scottish Tories firmly stuck to the correct election campaign strategy for a smaller party, despite getting a lot of criticism at the time. She really did what Mike Smithson suggested the Libdems have to do now.
re 49. But would the LDs prop up Labour if it had the most seats but was 5% behind the Tories in the national vote?
Perhaps they ought to make it clear that they are talking about the vote-winner not the seat-winner?
I nominate Planet Hollywood as the Nulabour soul mate.
The chain stole ideas and talent from another chain and had to pay for that plagiarism, but they still managed to open lots of cafes using celebrity endorsements bought with cheap shares and promises of huge profits. It gained massive popularity with queues outside to get in.
Then reality hit home and the brand hit serious trouble as the market saw the offering for what it was: glitz hiding the same old product. The shares tumbled from the dizzy highs to disastrous lows.
It has gone bankrupt twice and now is reforming itself into a more traditional chain with less fashionable outlets in central London. it is unlikely to ever regain those heady days of old although it is struggling to retain the same sexy image it used to have.
54, it’s almost an entirely worthless comment though.
Imagine the odds on the Tories being the largest party and the Lib Dems still being in a position to pick which party to form a coalition with. Must be pretty long. Plus it’d be a stupid action.
Comment free post only for Mike’s count
And one about the restaurant review:
WTF????
64.Mike, see my post above yours @63, I Cable’s comments, and the timing will do the Libdems no favours. Richard asked the other important question which struck me when I saw this. Is Cable speaking for Clegg and the party on this issue, or is this just his personal view?
I posted a comment on PB.com earlier this week about the way that Clegg and Cable don’t seem to be working together as a team. Is there tension between the two of them?
27
Mark Senior:
Doesn’t this
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7820728.stm
mean you owe someone £20?
66: If the Lib Dems get hit badly in the south but fail to win many Labour seats up north there is a possibility that three parties might be required to get a majority.
There you go that’s another 3 comments
No… 4
Or 5 now!
Brilliant, Morus.
Are you now officially insane?
66 MD - Only a few days ago people were speculating about a LibDem-Labour pact, in advance of the election. So it is quite significant in that Cable’s comments effectively rule this out [I thought it was a non-starter anyway, but that's beside the point].
It is a tricky area for the LibDems. If they say they’d support Labour in a hung parliament, why vote for them rather than Labour or the Conservatives, depending on which you prefer? If they say what Cable said, it can be paraphrased as “we’d opportunistically go whichever way the wind’s blowing”. Much better to argue their own case on their own policies, and refuse to speculate on what might happen after the election, IMO.
[70] I see that the quarter in which the economy shrank the fastest was followed the year after by the government being returned with an increased majority…
[42] As ever, a very thoughtful contribution from David - you should have a blog of your own! Someone said here - I forget who, it may have been the estimable Ken - that the public sector needed to be shrunk by 30% to bring it in line with the tax base. If that is what the Tories are thinking of doing, they will need some very very good presentational skills!
i like morus
76:
2 words: Michael Foot
Wrong about The Olden Days,Morus.For example there was a fish restaurant called Sheekeys (still is) where lords and ladies sat down with porters and clerks and various lowlives like me to consume vast quantities of oysters and jellied eels.
The service was from middle aged ladies with no discernible glamour and dressed in a manner of which the good old Queen would have approved.
My memory of Sheekeys as it was goes back to the pre-Beatles ’60s.
75, I think it’s not a bad line “We’ll support whichever party has the most support”. Having re-read the article though the line is actually “We’ll support whichever party has the most seats.”
As someone astute above said, what if Labour are 5 points behind the Tories and 1 seat ahead?
75 - “If they say they’d support Labour in a hung parliament, why vote for them rather than Labour…” - well I presume the LDs could not back Labour unless ID cards were abolished. In a LD / Lab coalition you get as a minimum NuLsnish “but wih a human face”. A Prague spring, if you like.
81, hmm. I’d have to see that to believe it. I think Clegg might swap ID cards in return for PR.
It’s Saturday morning ffs, can someone translate Morus for those of us currently at less than optimum awareness.
75.”If they say what Cable said, it can be paraphrased as “we’d opportunistically go whichever way the wind’s blowing”. Much better to argue their own case on their own policies, and refuse to speculate on what might happen after the election, IMO.”
That is exactly the mess the Scottish Libdems got into during the Scottish elections. They got totally tied up in a debate about supporting the SNP and a referendum on independence. And that ended up being seen as the sticking point, as would PR at Westminster.
Annabel Goldie clearly pointed out that for example, the SNP would have the right to govern as a minority party. And by making that point, and then saying that the Tories would not go into a coalition, but rather support the minority government on an issue by issue basis she allowed the focus to remain on the party’s policies.
82 - hope not. ID cards are much more important an issue, at the moment at least. My party membership would ride on this.
re 63. I really don’t think that there is a split between Clegg and and Cable. It might have been difference if Cable had run for the leadership but he was was one of the earliest and most vocal backers for Clegg. The problem is that Cable has the higher profile and when he’s asked for his views it can be presented as though it was a split.
Depending on the numbers of course it is much easier to envisage a LD-CON relationship than one with a beaten Brown.
[78] Not so - check the link, Jon!
85, I originally wrote ‘would’, but I do recall principled* Lib Dem MPs ignoring Clegg over Lisbon, so perhaps it wouldn’t happen.
*or perhaps they were worried about their seats
But, after losing 23 elections in a row, would the Lib Dem leader really turn down the opportunity for real power? Possibly. I hope we don’t reach the situation where Nick Clegg’s decision-making matters at all, but if we do it’ll be fascinating to watch and see where ID and PR end up.
80 MD etc - Surely a better line (if pressed) would be “In the eventuality of a hung parliament, we would be pushing for the LibDem values and policies on which our MPs had been elected”. Cable’s form of words doesn’t actually allow for negotiation over policies (such as ID cards). In practice, I’m sure it would be based on haggling in smoke-free rooms, but why give hostages to fortune?
79 Was there the othe day, URW. Very nice, but not quite as you describe.
Do you remember Blooms in Aldgate, just round the corner from Tubby Isaac’s?
The only safe bet in British politics is that the Lib Dems will come third.Long may that tradition continue.
It’s just a shame that you can’t bet one-fifth the odds 1-2-3 !
That was a great read,Morus. I thoroughly digested it and now need the alka-seltzer.
The idea that any one can pre-judge what will happen in the event of a, ‘hung-parliament’ is absurd. There will be a frantic period of horse trading, the party that offers the Libdems, (or others) the best deal will get the result.
86.”The problem is that Cable has the higher profile and when he’s asked for his views it can be presented as though it was a split.”
Thanks Mike, I think they need to address this problem though. We have the opposite situation in the Tories right now, Cameron has such a high profile that it often drowns out the rest of the Shadow team.
Don’t get me wrong, I am a follower of the Smithson rule about his raised media profile and our polling figures, but we do need to widen the focus with a few more media friendly faces becoming real household names as well.
Excellent Morus - the Janssons Frestelse sounds delicious - I have not met it before - but am surprised at the Bullingdon serving such foreign muck!
Would have thought the menu would say:
Dish of the day - TBA
Can someone suggest whether William Hills 6/4 offering on George Osbourne to be next Chancellor is good value? I’m presently wavering.
‘Hung Parliament’ is a phrase that seems to make all LibDems shivery with an almost sexual excitement, a prospect of power without the necessary national electoral support.
And like many vices this salivation leads into other temptations which then deny the possibility of the pleasure so anticipated.
94. Red meat for its regulars in the form of prime cuts?
95 noisy reading his latest speech of last week might give you a clue. So much more coherent and realistic than government bombast.
http://www.conservatives.com/News/Speeches/2008/12/George_Osborne_We_need_action.aspx
I doubt the Lib Dems will have a say in a hung parliament - they are detested by both sides as much as any extremist minor party, and far more than the larger parties dislike each other. (Evidence? Passim, here.)
I’d guess that 200 MPs from each of the big parties could happily construct a majority, with the official opposition coming from one the rumps.
90-Peter the Punter.You make my point for me.Morus was saying that in days of yore there was a place for everyone and everyone knew their plaice.
I was saying the opposite with regard to Sheekeys in the early 1960s.
As for Bloom’s in Whitechapel….been there done that many times.I used to spend a lot more time in Carroll’s of Gt.Windmill St. which was much more impromptu.
‘Carroll’ was a cafe proprietor,not a Lady of the Night.
Another famous haunt was Henekey’s in the Strand.This was a place you could get a second growth claret and a massive portion of bread and cheese and still have change for a pound for your taxi home !
Nick is the game 6044? Is David Roe Russia? An Anglo French alliance looks to be the answer!
98. Thats really irrelevent, I’m not interested in his economic message (for betting purposes) just whether Darling or Osbourne will be moved before the next election!
re 94. What we want is a Well Hung parliament.
This article from Iain Dale might be of interest to the punters on PB.com.
Will Hilary Benn Resign over Heathrow?
He also mentions that a few Tory MP’s might rebel over this as well. I live at the other end of the country, but I really cannot see how anyone would want a third runway there?
103
Will that be all, ‘members?’
104, would be fun.
Some would-be Tory rebels might stay their hand at the prospect of dealing the government a blow and not irritating their leader.
Government to win by 6 DUP votes, anyone?
95 noisy - Well, the probability clearly has three components:
1) Darling NOT to be replaced before the GE (I’d guess 80% chance that he’ll still be in office?)
2) Osborne to remain as Shadow Chancellor and Cameron’s choice of chancellor - I’d say 95% chance or even higher
3) Conservatives to form the next government (other markets indicate 70% or so fore largest party, which is a reasonable proxy).
On that basis, I’d say it was reasonable value.
Help URW! There used to be a restaurant in Percy St (I think)at the end of Charlotte St which served superb duck. I seem to remember something about an elephant on the sign. What was it called?
107 continued - BetFair last matched price 2.10 also suggests it’s value. (I got a small amount on this market at 3.8 when there was a lot of silly speculation about Osborne after the Derispaska affair).
106.I see that the majority have voted in favour of an alternative to Heathrow on the monthly ConHom poll.
My memory is good for things I remember,Icarus, but atrocious regarding things I don’t.
I spent a great deal of time in that area as well (shamed face.)
Lots of Greek and Indian restaurants and one quaint old German restaurant called Schmidts.
Close by in Drummond St. was my favourite Indian restaurant called The Shah where every dish tasted and looked different.
Perhaps it is when you are young that every dish tastes and looks different
Its OK, URW. It was called the White Tower 1, Percy St! Stuffed ducking - I can still taste it!
Schmidts was good too -though only went there once, it closed soon after.
O/T The Leicester Mercury has the whole of today’s front page given over to a Tory student dressing up as Madelaine McCann (the McCann’s live and work in Leicester). Whilst the idiot in question has been dismissed from the party - The headline comes over as Tories are still very, very nasty.
57 - lol, yes, GeoffH - and note that there are comments on the thread from Easterross and others who seem to still think Morus really is discussing restaurants!
Matthew Parris’s piece and David Herdson’s thoughtful comment above reflect a general dilemma about UK politics. They sort of assume, and Parris quite explicit about it, that parties maneouvre to catch wahtever the prevailing wind is, rather than try to maike the weather themselves. Parris says the touchy-feely stuff was just clever marketing (as some of us observed at the time), and it’s time to drop it.
This is absolutely routine in US politics - it is very hard to think of any remotely mainstream policy that you can be confident would NOt be adiopted by either Democrats or Republicans. They read the polls, they adjust accordingly. It’s also obviously a factor in British politics. But we’re still quite ideas-driven (IMO a good thing), so people feel uneasy about it - many Tories don’t like the idea of protecting foreign aid while not protecting policing budgets, many Labour people are uneasy about Blunkett-style lock-em-all-up crime policies, LibDems are dubious about suddenly becomin gthe big tax-cutting party.
The public generally don’t mind - if you promise to do wha tthey want, they aren’t too fussed if you’re doing it for cynical reasons, up to a point. But eventually they too get uneasy if you seem too ready to switch back and forth. There’s a real tension there, for all parties.
Hills have a new market up: “Kenneth Clarke to rejoin the Shadow Cabinet before next General Election”
Currently 6-4. A tricky one to assess.
112-Visited The White Tower just once,Icarus, and had osso bucco.The place had a big name but I wasn’t thrilled.
Apols for typos - writing in a hurry.
re 115.
The William Hill market on Ken Clarke looks great value. I’ve just put on £100.
If you are betting please use the links from here - it helps fund the site.
113
Must be a slow day for News in Leicester…or a slow day every day?
re 115. The great thing is that you could get your money back in only a few weeks.
As I said earlier in the week I don’t think that Cameron would have allowed the speculation to continue if this was not on.
http://politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/01/06/has-cameron-gone-too-far-on-the-clarke-speculation/
re 113. As a fellow Lib Dem Icarus can I respectfully suggest that our party is not on the strongest of grounds when it comes to student pranks.
One of the sad ironies is that what many want - from the “conservative” and “labour” camps is actually the attitude and policies of the Liberals - circa 1911…. Hence the Orange Bookers, I suppose.
111,112 Yes, I remember the White Tower - I was entertained there several times by our then Solicitors, Pritchard, Englefield & Tobin.
I also remember an Italian deli in Charlotte Street, where they would sell you wine at 50p per bottle, poured straight from the barrel, I suppose it was awful stuff, but it tasted OK at the time.
Mornin’ all.
Thanks once again to Mike and to you all for being so supportive of the Saturday Slant - I wasn’t sure the execution of this one was quite there, and there’s the constant fear when I wake up on Saturdays that there will be a hundred people telling me I’ve jumped the shark. Richard Nabavi is right at 56 - it is too long - but I normally write late at night and I couldn’t see what to cut without making the message too subtle.
David Herdson at 42 makes a truly brilliant comment, and one that sums up my motivation for writing this better than perhaps the main piece. This week, I was asked to describe in a single word the overarching mood of British politics and I said ‘nervousness’ - the public don’t know who they are (working class/middle class) and the political parties don’t know where they should position themselves. Crisis of confidence is a tighter explanation for the Conservatives in particular, but the mood is there across the parties.
The Tories aren’t sure how mimsy they have to be on spending cuts, and ditching environmentalism. Labour don’t know whether they want to be the party of the working class or of NW3 Leftyism, and the Lib Dems retain the hidden fault lines between Orange Book Liberals and the old SDP wing of their activist base (this is oversimplified of course).
This post was borne of frustration - I honestly have less idea each day as to how I will vote, because there are things that irk me about each party, and this was my attempt at addressing those in as even-handed a way as possible.
Thanks for being so positive in your responses.
@118:
Once Osborne started briefing that the return of Clarke was his idea all along, I think it became a bang-on certainty. I’ll have me some of that pie too, thanks, Mike.
@124:
FWIW, Morus, you could have made it a little more obvious what you were doing. As I said, until I was halfway through, I assumed you were having some kind of manic episode.
And the metaphor seems to have cantered free from some of our more esteemed posters with gay abandon.
120 Thanks Mike, Richard and others.
I’m on. 6/4 looks good value. It’s surely no more than even money at most.
We should know fairly soon.
126 - I know, it’s just hard to do so without being clumsy, and given that this was an act of homage to AA Gill (whose ‘Table Talk’ review in the Sunday Times is one of the highlights of my week) I couldn’t bear to be too clumsy. That’s why it is too long.
The sign of a good metaphor is that it is contagious! The decor is the mood and branding of the party, the service staff are those who are the face of that party, and the food is the policy served up. The building blocks are there - go forth and be creative.
I agree the BNP would be a greasy spoon, but devising a suitable one for the Lib Dems is somewhat harder.
126 - Oh, and don’t rule out manic episodes. It will happen, it’s just a case of when…
Very OT, Some rumours that Hamas is really feeling the weight of the Israeli assault and may agree to an unconditional ceasfire with some kind of multinational force eventually plunked on its territory.
The next 24-48 hours could see something of a decision point.
130 - I’ve just heard Abbas calling for an international force.
Turkish and French troops being mentioned.
128 - Maybe the lib dem restaurant is one which has a behind the scenes power struggle between its owners; one wanting to keep it as the organic, wholefood restaurant it has been until recently, whilst the other one wants to turn it into one with the decor of Bullingdon’s and the food of the New Clause IV. The rapid turnover of recent head chefs has been indicative of this difficulty and punters are staying away because they aren’t sure what’s on the menu this week.
Excellent, fun article anyway!
On the subject of something mentioned upthread, suggesting that lib dems will support whoever will have the most *seats*. I think that’s a misreading, it would be impossible for a PR supporting party to do that with credibility, it is a matter of supporting the party with the most *votes* that will be the case.
The only difficulty comes when England may differ from Scotland and Wales but, given devolved power, I think the situation in England would be the more important factor.
Further to 115 - Thanks Mike, PtP, and Martin. You’ve convinced me.
132
Isnt it likely that The Tories will outvote Labour in England by a fair distance? Are there any figures:?
“On the subject of something mentioned upthread, suggesting that lib dems will support whoever will have the most *seats*. I think that’s a misreading, it would be impossible for a PR supporting party to do that with credibility, it is a matter of supporting the party with the most *votes* that will be the case. ”
What if the one with the fewer votes offers to introduce PR.
115 - I’m on that too.
124. Thanks for your comment Morus. To pick up on something Innocent Abroad mentioned earlier, one of the main reasons I don’t blog independently is that I find it very difficult to start with a blank sheet of paper (or the electronic equivalent) - so huge credit and respect to people like yourself and Mike, and Marf in her way, who can do that.
Ref the return of Clarke, my initial reaction was that 6/4 was stingy rather than generous. Having seen the names who’ve taken the bet, I’ve thought about it again but still don’t see it as a 40% shot. He made it clear afer the last leadership election that the leadership was the one job he was interested in and while the political climate is one that would make a U-turn on that more acceptable - all hands to the pump in a crisis - I’m still not convinced he’d add enough more to make the move worthwhile.
If he comes into the shadow cabinet, he comes in to take a cabinet place if the Conservatives win. If he shadows Business (which will be practically difficult with Mandelson in the Lords), will he overshadow Osborne on economic matters? Does Cameron move Osborne to CCHQ to make room for Clarke? If so, what happens after an election if the Conservatives win when Osborne would expect a major portfolio? Where does discussion go on European matters (Lisbon rather than the Euro being the main point)? What can Clarke achieve in the Shadow Cabinet that he can’t on the backbenches and TV / Radio studios? Would his reappointment raise the outside interests question again?
Against all that is the momentum. Sometimes all sides can get pressured into doing something they don’t want because everyone expects them to and it’s too embarrassing then not to. Fortunately for Cameron, if he doesn’t want to do it then all he has to do (on that issue) is nothing; it would be much harder to duck if he had a positive decision to take.
135 - Depends on two things - one, that there is an election under the new system within a year and two, that the form of PR is truly proportional (i.e. not AV or a run off system). Those would be my requirements anyway.
Does OT mean “on topic” or “off topic”? Sorry: I’m not very clubable. Anyway, to go along with number 16, I and the brunette cook for each other a few times a week. This is all the more adventurous because we have different houses. Wow.
132/4. But that’s something the Lib Dems can’t afford to say publicly as it’s extremely likely that *any* hung parliament will have the Tories with most votes, and even more so in England or England-Wales. If they go into an election with only one potential coalition partner (and that being one unlikely to offer them enough to agree a coalition), then they’re writing themselves into irrelevance. In any case, as Christina and Mike have both said, this is a debate the Lib Dems should be running a mile from. Never mind saying the wrong thing; they shouldn’t be saying anything at all about post-election deals.
“I’ve just heard Abbas calling for an international force.”
You know if you could just add an appostrophe into that sentance it would make it far more interesting. Seventies pop group demands UN peacekeeping force.
124
Morus,great article as usual,next time you are headed for Notting Hill go one stop further to Holland Park and try Julies in Portland road,used to be excellent in a very relaxed Bohemian style.
139. Off, I think.
18 coldstone
113.”The headline comes over as Tories are still very, very nasty.”
How do you work that one out? I have been a Tory my whole adult life, am I nasty?
140 - That’s very true but it’s what I can foresee happening and, as a mere voter, I have no reason to hide it. MPs and such should keep away from the debate though, better for them to prevaricate.
Off out for a little while to have lunch - will be back shortly, so please be patient with the moderation box,
What lunatics are running William Hills? A 2010 GE now 1.73, on betfair about 1.54. Am I missing something here??
142 Talking of Notting Hill Gate, There used to be an outstanding fish restaurant called Geales ? in one of the streets on the East side behind the main road. I havent been there in 25yrs or more. It was the best fish restaurant I have ever been into..
145. It’s a religious belief on the left - if the Tories *aren’t* nasty toffs, then why not vote for them. Otherwise it is just the Social Democrats vs Christian Democrats (European context).
In Ireland, the hatred of the British Crown is the totemic thing left to Republicans - uniting Ireland by violence etc has been binned, leaving the SDLP 2.0…. Hence the recent comedy of protests about Prince Charles sons going to Dublin to watch Rugby. Strangely this hatred doesn’t really extend to the politicians who have had the actual power for the last 200 years…..
Surely the restaurant metaphor for the Lib dems ic those giant “food courts” they have in shopping malls where everyone sits together but gets their food from different counters according to their own particular circumstances
131,141 Abbas, Abba and Hamas are three different things. Especially the first and third named.
Ed Miliband 20/1 on Paddy Power to be next Labour leader, good value?
Afternoon All,
Well not much happening today. Saw the Cable comments and they don’t surprise me. Libdems would be nuts to tie themselves to either of their rivals at this stage. Keep the lines of communication open with both and wait and see how things turn out.
As for today’s cullinary confusion, I’m afraid it is far beyond my own pretentions - read the first paragraph and gave up - and with that I’m off for some real food - bacon butties as it goes.
Cheerio Pip Pip
153. Reasonable if you’re prepared to wait a long time for it to come in. Mike rates him and his chances.
He won’t be leader this side of an election but might stand a chance afterwards, especially if Brown doesn’t stand down immediately. There are questions as to how much he’d want it and the extent to which Labour would be prepared to vote for someone who’s got where he has almost entirely on Brown’s patronage. He also sounds and looks a bit strange, which isn’t his fault but will make a difference. You’d also need to ask whether he’d stand against his brother, and if not, which is the more likely to back off.
148-That is a much better bet than the 1.57 you mentioned yesterday.
Possible snags are freezings funds or not getting on in decent size.
The mood music is all against a QI/Q2 GE and this could reach a crescen do next week.
My technical advice would be to smash in to a 2010 GE for as much as you can get and be patient with taking the profit on Betfair.
Penny4them Layed 1.51 a 2010 GE which was great business at the time but 1.50 could soon be breached.
Excellent piece, Morus. I have to admit that I read it a couple of times before the penny dropped.
David Herdson’s comment about a crisis of confidence in the Conservative party is interesting and there certainly seems to be a problem in deciding what line to take.
Some of Cam’s comments (echoing the bonkers Bishops) have sounded like an attack on materialism, which is fine if the economy were still growing but inappropriate and elitist-sounding when people are losing their jobs.
Osborne’s speech yesterday (98) seems to be mainly a technical argument about how to loosen up monetary policy and he makes some specific suggestions about how this should be done. He casts doubt on the idea that the fiscal stimulus will work but he doesn’t say anything about actually cutting down public expenditure even though this is the line that the Conservative party is apparently going back to.
Osborne still seems taken aback by the rapidly changing crisis and he’s slow to come up with conservative-sounded messages to respond to the threat of deflation.
Consider the following passage from his speech
“..quantitative easing - printing money by another name - is the last resort of desperate governments when all other policies have failed.
Of course it too can never be ruled out as a last resort in the fight against deflation.
A debt-deflationary spiral would be particularly damaging in a country with the highest levels of personal debt in the history of the developed world.
But in the end printing money risks losing control of inflation..”
It certainly doesn’t sound very confident to me
I don’t think Clarke would lack confidence in his critique of the Government but I still don’t reckon that Cam would risk bringing him back into the shadow cabinet
60. Do you think the Tory has any chance? Apparently his local party is split?
156. I went in another £100, I’ve already got about £500 at various times on 2010 so dont want to go much further unfortunately! Great value though
Price of Ken Clarke to return before GE now 11/10
114. I completely disagree with your point about US politics. The Republicans have remained steadfast in their opposition to universal healthcare and in their support of a complete ban on abortion despite large majorities thinking the opposite. The Democrats continue to support affirmative action policies, despite most people being against it. Neither party will repeal NAFTA even though that would be an enormously popular thing to do. The problem with American politics is that most politicians are too dogmatic and close-minded, not that they are blown by the wind too much.
158 noisy summer. Starting next week H1 2009 seriously begins to be an expiring option.
Part of the glamour that originally accrued to H1 2009 was this marvellous Feb 2009 GE.For that to happen,Gordon has to announce it sharpish.
My advice…and don’t tell anybody I told you,would be to stay a good friend of Q3/Q4 2009 because once the shine goes off the earlier option then that becomes the repository for hedging money from those heavily committed to 2010.
I expect you took the 11-2 for H2 anyway !
Earlier this morning I made a rather flippant and totally inappropriate comment to another poster on Pb.com (SBS). I don’t have his e-mail address to make a personal apology, so I will do so here and hope that it gets passed on.
Clearly what I said, not knowing the circumstances, was entirely wrong and deeply regretted. To SBS please accept my sincerest and unreserved apology
Whatever I say on this website (or elsewhere) may be intended to twist the tails of those who deserve to have them twisted, but this was not such an occassion.
161. I sure did!
12- My personal conception of coq au vin involves a red Burgundy wine, but there are recipes that call for white wine, too.
And on the topic of fine British cuisine, this may be the Year of the Squirrel:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/07/style/07squirrel.php
Apparently, “in farmers’ markets, butcher shops, village pubs and elegant restaurants, squirrel is selling as fast as gamekeepers and hunters can bring it in,” and that “hunters, gamekeepers, trappers and the Forestry Commission (the British equivalent of forest rangers) provide a regular supply of the meat to British butchers, restaurants, pâté and pasty makers and so forth.”
Questions:
Have any of you tried squirrel and, if so, how is it?
Any potential problems with Mad Squirrel Disease looming on the horizon? I’d hate to see a nascent industry that could provide a cornerstone of Brown’s domestic self-sufficiency plans end up being supplanted by imported Patagonian squirrel meat.
I wonder whether Clarke might return in some portfolio-less roving economic brief.
That would allow him to be part of the campaign in a meaningful position without having to replace anyone.
Would be a tricky thing to explain but it would probably be the best use of his talents.
Chair of the Committee for Economic Regeneration or something like that
113 A petulant and inaccurate comment.
The village of Rothley is in the constituency of Charnwood in North Leicestershire. Their MP is Dorrell.
12/164 - Yes, I’ve only ever had Coq au Vin with red wine, but I wanted a metaphor for the misapplication of European Directives into British Law.
Chalk that one up as a miss…
re 162. Barry - I don’t know whether SBS is on the site at the moment but I will email your comment to him.
He’s gone through a pretty challenging period and and we are all delighted that he seems to have pulled through. SBS has been one of the mainstays of PB right from the start.
Many thanks Barry.
102 noisy how do you assess the likelihood of a politician staying in office without looking at performance?
The point about the Osborne speech is that he is addressing many of the criticisms of him from his own party supporters. Couple that with his parliamentary demolition of Darling and the fact that he is the second pillar of the Cameron project and I would think you would lose money betting that Osborne would not be the Shadow Chancellor at an election.
Thanks, Mike
“I’ve just heard Abbas calling for an international force.”
Darling can you hear me, SOS?
165. I can only see Clarke coming back as Shadow Chancellor. There’s no reason to assume he wouldn’t want another go at No.11. But any other job? I don’t think so. He’s refused them all up until now, so why change. And unless it’s something big, it won’t make much difference with the public. He’s not some Mandelson behind the scenes type.
42. What about putting political opportunities aside and arguing for what you think is right? Cameron’s message about saving for a rainy day is a good one, but you don’t do that when the rain is already pouring. I know Brown has got us into a position where we have failed to reduce the debt during the good times, but government debt as a percentage of GDP is still lower than other similar economies. Can we really afford to let aggregate demand drop without government stepping in to keep it up? There are plenty of infrastructure projects that could be done - as anyone using the trains into London this week could tell you.
There’s obviously been a lot of money going on Ken Clarke in
the William Hill market on Ken Clarke returning to the cabinet. It was 6/4 this morning - the latest price is 11/10.
145. It might surprise you, but until recently the labour party was advising candidates to have facebook accounts. I notice that they are much cooler on the idea lately.
It’s not often I disagree with David Herdson but his assertion of a Conservative “crisis of confidence” has an uncharacteristic whiff of hyperbole about it. Having to react to a major change of circumstances is always problematic, particularly for an Opposition, but my instinct is that Cameron/Osborne have handled the transition to a revised, but still cautious approach, rather effectively.
The abandoning of the pledge to match Labour’s future spending plans, a necessary condition to creating a more distinctive position, was handled well and the embrace of ’savers’ as opposed to profligate ’spenders’ resonates well with Tory activists, and more important, the general public alike. Equally, by reaffirming that expenditure on health. education and overseas aid (whatever Matthew Parris may say) makes it more difficult for Labour and the LibDems to resurrect the ‘nasty party’ tag.
Unquestionably the Conservatives face challenging months ahead, particularly as the election is increasingly drawing closer (I’m still convinced on 2010), and the actual and rigorous specifics of policy have to be unveiled. But I’m rather more sanguine about ‘getting from here to there’ safely and credibly than David or the mildly frivolous Parris.
Socrates Can you allow demand not to drop when it has been propped up by massive state and individual borrowing and to prop it up the solution is to borrow more.
The percentage of GDP represented by national debt is inadequate as a measure and the total national indebtedness is more important and relevant, and on this measure the UK is proving a world leader.
164. Squirrel? It tastes like rat.
Gwynfa - I am only reporting how the Leicester Mercury front page looks. Rothley, though is just North of the A46 northern ring road on the outskirts of Leicester.
178- Really? I read an authoritative account of the Paris Commune once upon a time which debunked as myth the idea that starving Parisians resorted en masse to eating rats during the siege. While rat consumption did occur, it was fairly limited and came well after the zoo had been cleared of even its more exotic animals. So why would people willingly eat something that tastes like rat?
Just tried to ring my water company to report a burst water main on a rural road. The emergency number has an estimated 43 minute wait before it will be answered.
153 / 155: Ed M. is also available at 20s to be Home Secretary at the end of 2009. I said during the Greengate business that he or Purnell would be my tips for who would take over as Home Sec. I would suggest that this offers better value. (Purnell at 16s in the same market).
180. Rat’s not so bad, a bit like rabbit, just make sure they’re well cleaned and appear healthy.
There are three recipes in Andre Simon’s ‘A Concise Encyclopedia of Gastronomy’, one for s. en casserole, another for s. pie and one for sauteed s. My exposure was to s. stew, though someone did suggest that they’re just the right size for kebabs - a squirrel lollipop. Not much fat on ‘em, though, so you’d have to baste well or interleave with fat pork.
I paid THIRTEEN POUNDS for a cinema ticket yesterday and had to sit through FIFTEEN MINUTES of commercials! For all I know there were even more but I got up and walked out at that point…
Very good article by Alan Dershowitz (not usually a favourite of mine) in the Telegraph today on Gaza,,,,
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/4209138/Gaza-why-a-ceasefire-wont-work.html
183: I read a weekend supplement article a few weeks back about a couple of guys who roam around Northumberland killing grey squirrels in order to help out the reds. They were selling them on to a restaurant somewhere in the Hexham area, if I recall correctly.
b. appear healthy ….. but dead!
well, there’s a coincidence, Ian Stewart at 41, my grandmother was born in Esprick - but she only ever grew rhubarb and meat&potato pies.
One of the more amusing articles I’ve read here. Morus… much kudos! It wasn’t until I got to the New Clause IV bit that it clicked.
PS. I see some readers questioning the Riesling dish on the menu. Coq au Riesling is the Alsatian variation on Coq au Vin. Alsace, of course, is much better known for its whites than reds, so naturally the local variation uses a white wine & some cream instead of red wine (though for drinking, I prefer to stick to Alsation Gewurz and for Riesling would suggest a Mosel).
Alsace is also well known for being heavily fought over by the French & the Germans in the past, but is now fervently pro-EU (Strasbourg is its regional capital). I leave it to Morus to tell us whether he chose the wine to use in his article with any symbolism in mind!
87:
Mea culpa. I read something yesterday about the lowest since 1981.
When was “You’ve never had it so good”? wasn’t that late 50s? -2.6% doesn’t quite square with that? Was the -2.6% some statistical anomaly?
113: The biggest non-story since Harry as a nazi. Really it is hardly news that someone in their early 20s has done something stupid at a party. Leicester mercury editor must be a Draperbot
186. Wasn’t one of them a Lib Dem peer? (Lord Redesdale, IIRC.)
184- You pay ca. $20 to see a movie?!?! Even here in New York, it’s only gotten up to around $12 for a standard evening showing. I don’t know how you guys can afford to do anything if that’s what your cost of living is like.
189 - Haha - see my post at 167.
Reisling was chosen for being from near Strasbourg, but I wasn’t aware of Coq au Vin cooked the Alsatian way. Every time I’ve been it’s always been Salted Cod and largely Germanic dishes - not a French recipe in sight!
172.”There’s no reason to assume he wouldn’t want another go at No.11. But any other job? I don’t think so. He’s refused them all up until now, so why change.”
Its quite simple, Brown is in charge and the economy is going down the toilet. Also the Conservatives are looking at their first real chance of defeating Labour in a GE and forming a government. I don’t remember any time in the last 15 years where so many of the former big beasts of the previous Conservative government have been so close to the leadership, and on message.
There has been regular snippets of gossip alluding to the fact that Clarke, Lawson, Redwood & Co are back in the tent working within the team to attack Labour and address the problems facing the economy. I could be wrong, but I get the impression that Brown created some very long running grudges with members of the previous Conservative government. Think about it, John Major kept a very low profile for many years, but since Brown became PM he has spoken out on two or three accessions very effectively.
194 - That’s a very perceptive point, ChristinaD.
We’re all so used to thinking of the Tories as being a ruthless party at each others’ throats that it’s easy to overlook that there are no major enemies to Cameron in the party (Heffer excluded) - IDS, Clarke, Howard, Major are all on message, and Redwood isn’t half as troublesome as he used to be.
Europe is no longer an issue, as I can only think of one or two Europhiles left, and they don’t bang on about it.
There’s huge potential trouble for any Conservative leader, given the characters they have, but there’s no evidence of any personal opposition to Cameron as Blair and Brown have both endured inside the PLP, which is why I think Cameron could have been bolder about insisting on the second jobs issue. He’s in quite a position of strength for a Conservative leader - maybe the best position of any Tory leader regarding a united party in my lifetime.
Actually the cost didn’t bother me at first since it was one of London’s largest cinemas*. But if the switch to digital projection means that the ads are going to start going on for over 10 minutes (the traditional length of a film reel in the projection booth) then I’m just going to have to watch even more DVDs at home.
* Odeon West End — go there if you want to pay £13.20 to watch 15+ minutes of commercials!
185. For people like Dershowitz and his ilk, do they ever think any attack on Muslims is too militant?
197 - He has almost exactly the same piece in today’s Guardian, opposite Naomi Klein calling for a boycott of Israel, because that’s what worked in South Africa.
193 - Morus, if you didn’t actually know it existed, that was truly inspired! Yes, Coq au Riesling is a fairly traditional dish from Alsace, cooked almost exactly the same way as Coq au Vin, but finished adding a bit cream at the end.
I’m glad at least to have cottoned on to the Strasbourg connection!
That doyenne of domestication, Nigella Lawson, had a version of it in one of her recent series, although she used oyster mushrooms which is totally the wrong taste/texture in my opinion. What must her father think…?
re 194. There are many Labour insiders who believe that they key moment ahead of the election U-turn in October 2007 was John Major’s intervention on the day Brown tried to over-shadow Cameron’s conference speech. It will be recalled that Brown went to Iraq and Major made a scintillating attack on the tactic which really hit home.
The reason why Brown will not win is that he lacks the emotional intelligence to understand when he’s making a pillock of himself. End of story.
My wife is quite keen on squirrels. It tastes like really dark meat like a denser chicken’s thigh. She used to eat them growing up in Louisiana and Mississippi and since living in the UK has been advocating eating the black squirrels to save the red ones.
173. Most Conservatives would argue that getting the nation’s finances back on an even keel is something they believe in. It was the earlier pledges to match Labour’s spending that was out of character.
All this talk of a consumer-lead economy is meaningless if there’s nothing behind it to back it up. Spending more than we earn is only possible by spending yesterday’s income (selling off assets) or that of tomorrow’s (building up debt), neither of which is sustainable. When the borrowing feeds through to effective investment, whether in infrastructure, human capital or business investment, there’s a good justification for that borrowing. If it’s just to get people buying stuff (especially stuff produced overseas or from the luxury service sector), there’ll be little meaningful return.
BTW - the opinion in most of the country is that London already gets too much of the government’s money.
197. What on earth do you mean by ‘and his ilk’? I’d be careful using expressions like that, if I were you.
200 Mike Smithson re Gordon Brown and emotional intelligence.
It does not matter because we vote for parties not presidents.
It might have meant he lost a leadership election but that’s water under the bridge now.
re 204 “It does not matter because we vote for parties not presidents.”
I don’t think that applies anymore. We have become more presidential and the leader matters more than anything.
192 Well we make so much money from political betting, SSI, that it’s of no consequence to us but you do worry about ordinary folk.
re 192 - the prices sounded a lot better when it was $2 to £1!!
For seniors like me it costs just £4.50 at our local multiplex.
207
My wife and daughter paid £1 this morning!
Normal price £7 here though
A poll tonight?
We might just see ICM in one of the Sundays. I don’t think that ComRes’s survey for the IoS will be out this weekend and, who knows, the Sunday Times might have their regular YouGov poll.
206- I’m flattered you think I’m SSI, PtP! You did that one other time in the last week but I just let it go then.
207/208- Okay, that sounds a lot more reasonable. I guess you don’t all live like well-heeled plutocrats such as BannedHorse.
205: Not party? While a leader might put off or encourage some to vote for a party most people still vote tribally.
On the subject of squirrels (since that’s now the main topic):
My sister-in-law gave me a Christmas present a while back of some Kentish Cobnut shrubs (a sort of designer hazlenut, for those not familiar with the cobnut), together with membership of the growers’ association. I was amused to see, in the annual report, an account of the Annual Nutters’ Dinner. The format was that each member brought along a dish made with cobnuts. Most were the obvious (meringues, etc), but one member brought Squirrel Pie - on the basis that it was made with recycled cobnuts.
176.”The abandoning of the pledge to match Labour’s future spending plans, a necessary condition to creating a more distinctive position, was handled well and the embrace of ’savers’ as opposed to profligate ’spenders’ resonates well with Tory activists, and more important, the general public alike.”
That’s a really good point JohnO, every policy that the Tories have proposed in recent months has been carefully targeted at specific groups. Each one on its own would not be effective, but grouped together they form a powerful coalition come a GE.
New thread - “What’s Cable up to..?
162 - Apology accepted, and no offence, Barry.
I was a little direct in my reply with what is wrong with me.
You have not been here often recently. Can we look forward to your general comments on the NHS as the GE approaches, as a employee? The rest of, as consumers, certainly have views (mine currently very complimentary).
210 - That’s a $3 fine for Peter the Punter towards the PArty Fund then!
210 Oh bugger. More work for my libel lawyers I suppose.
Sorry S&S.
195.”He’s in quite a position of strength for a Conservative leader - maybe the best position of any Tory leader regarding a united party in my lifetime.”
Morus, I think that over the longer term this has been one of the key successes that Cameron and Osborne have achieved in turning the party’s polling fortunes around. As Brown carries on knocking holes in his own criticism of the Tories over the last 11 years, the bolder they become. Why risk a possible hit when your opposition are very effectively doing the job for you, and taking the flak as well?
200.Mike, I agree with those Labour insiders on John Major’s intervention that day, it really did remind me that you can underestimate him at your peril.
204&205.Yikes, I can’t remember which well known pollster said it, but they thought that we had become much more presidential in our approach to party leaders a few years ago now.