Do “class war” issues really poll well?
December 28th, 2009
Latest Ipsos-MORI issues index
Is Sunny Hundal misreading the data?
There’s a fascinating debate going on amongst Labour/left bloggers over whether the party’s apparent “class war” strategy is the right way to go.
The Scottish Labour MP, Tom Harris, is very much against arguing that “.the only strategy Labour should even consider is one which aims to see us re-elected with a working overall majority in the Commons. Setting our sights anywhere lower than that would be a betrayal of our country and our party.”
Liberal Conspiracy’s Sunny Hundal takes the opposite viewpoint arguing: “..Class War remains an electorally viable strategy because: (a) a majority of voters are persuaded by the implication; (b) it highlights wedge issues Labour needs to advance to narrow their defeat; (c) extensive polling shows that most ‘class war’ positions are deeply popular.“
I suggest both of them take a close look at the regular Ipsos-MORI monthly “Issues Index” where interviewees are asked, totally unprompted, to suggest the ” the most important issues facing Britain”. They can list as many as they like and this has been asked in this way for more than thirty years. What I like about it is that we get a real sense of the importance in people’s minds of different policy areas.
If in the face-to-face interviews people put or don’t put issues forward then that is a measure, surely, of the level of importance they attach to them.
Thus if Hindal’s assertion that “most class war issues are deeply popular” was correct then they would figure higher than the 7% for inequality and the 3% for “low pay/fair wages” that were recorded in the last such poll.
Tom Harris is on the right side of the argument here.
Mike Smithson
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Dead Heat!
I think Labour are making the mistake of thinking that upping turnout in seats they’ll never lose anyway is as good as winning back “Blairite” voters in marginals.
Oh, and a Tory-Lib Dem coalition for POTY? Well well well….
Obama’s Approval has reached 47 with Rasmussen: +3…
Don’t know about the polling but its blody funny.
Here’s another one for you AndrewG
‘I do wish,’ said the Hon Jacob Rees-Mogg in slightly peevish tones, ‘you wouldn’t keep going on about my nanny.’ The 30-year-old prospective parliamentary candidate for the Wrekin in Shropshire, son of former Times editor Lord Rees-Mogg, rearranged his Flat Stanley form under the table at Claridges. ‘If I had a valet you’d think it was perfectly normal. Well,’ he concedes, catching my eye, ‘perhaps not.’ Until two years ago, Rees-Mogg employed a maid called Eleanor. Then - rather thoughtlessly - she went off and got married. Now the fund manager has to make do with his nanny, Veronica Crook, who famously canvassed for him when he stood as Tory candidate for the depressed constituency of Central Fife.
On one magnificent occasion two summers ago, both maid and nanny were to be found tending to their charge in the bucolic glory of Glyndebourne, where they took turns holding an open book over Rees-Mogg’s thin and pale neck to prevent it getting burned as he entertained a party of guests to a picnic.
Was this really true? ‘Oh, every bit of it. I hate sitting in the sun,’ he says. ‘So I complained to Nanny and she rellied round!’ The eccentric Rees-Mogg may, I suspect, be the last young British male to live as though he is in the 19th century.
I suspect electors have no problem whatsoever with Cameron having gone to Eton.
However, I suspect that they would be or could be persuaded to be concerned about the large number of people from the same or similar backgrounds in a possible future Tory Cabinet.
Look at the way in which French sentiment has frequently be swayed by anti-ENA campaigning. If Labour were clever they might be able to try the same tactic. If they were clever…Ah, I knew this argument would fall down somewhere…
POTY: nice decision, generously suggested by Richard - well done to both!
On topic: the term ‘class war’ is too vague to be useful - most people are instinctively against any kind of civil “war” anyway. In simple “should the rich or poor pay more” issues, the public normally responds “the rich”, but a Labour campaign based on that only works insofar as the separate point “…and the Tories normally favour the rich” is believed and disapproved of by most people. The polling evidence does suggest that this might be the case (in my experience even the rich don’t all support favouring the rich), and is probably one reason why the Tory rating is dragging. I think it’s one element of a successful campaign but probably too narrow to work as the main theme.
FPT (only bit of the post worth repeating): The Telegraph’s new book “Am I alone in Thinking…” with readers’ letters that didn’t make it into print is really very funny. It mildly mocks both the obvious targets (politicians and so on) and the readers at the same time.
I have a question for the lefties here.
If a fox was a privately educated toff, would you still support the banning of fox hunting?
5. It’s Zac Goldsmith I feel sorry for. Imagine being lumped into the same category as Rees-Mogg, when you’re young, charming and intelligent, as opposed to chuffing mental.
did anyone follow my tip of yesterday — betting @ more than 2-1 on Obama’s approval being at least 50% by 2010 on the RCP average?
by midday December the 31th precisely
I think that Sunny is completely wrong - and as the priority list shows, most people don’t agree with him either.
I’m not a regular reader of his stuff, but what I have seen plays to the core vote/Tory baby-eaters meme.
Unless the class war tactic is meant to motivate the core vote, it’s entirely self-destructive as it makes people like me [who did vote NL] think Labour are now anti-aspiration/predjudiced against a group of people who can’t help who their parents are/mean-spirited/fighting ideological wars from the 1970s.
Congratulations to Richard Nabavi and Yellow Submarine on becoming joint Pb’s POTY, a good decision methinks.
As for the ‘Class war’ debate amongst the left, I’m sure there are those that will support it just because this is route the PPL have chosen to take. . .and there are those that will see it for the low political bigotry it is and speak out against it.
The latter will be in the minority however.
even today bets were matched at 3-1 (on intrade)…
5 I tend to think things should be left to lie between threads, but as you have reposted FPT so will I:
310 That’s what most people would call a “housekeeper” then. I’d have one myself if I could afford one.
After Plato’s request for a hug yesterday (sorry, I am very bad at PDAs so you didn’t get one from me) and her admission that she sounds like Jimmy Nail when she’s had a few bottles of Broon Dog, I have an urge to pat her on the head and call her “hinny”. But I won’t, obviously.
OT Cameron gets wet and muddy - anyone seen Gordon since his hostage video?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/8432439.stm
Obama! Obama!
17 Are you praying, or taking His name in vain?
That is extremely gracious of Richard. The competition has sort of deconstructed its self this year because of the all the well qualified candidates. Next year we should use STV and insist the finalists have to construct a working super majority of 60% before they be crowned coalition POTY.
On topic. Class war isn’t going to get Labour anywhere but a 21st centtuary version of “solidarity” might have. “Fairness” is probably the least worst option in terms of a sound bite. I have banged on all year about what major corportae brands are doing with their branding and they seem ahead of the big parties. ( American Express is the latest to begin deliberately trashing its own brand. And I note with interest just when we are beginning to come out of recession.)
But 10p tax finished Labour as a party of fairness and they seem incapable of a big u turn. They should have pinched as much of the Lib Dems £10k personal allowance as they could have afforded, set the £10k as an aspiration and clobbered the “bankers” to pay for the first installment.
Of course the great,epic missed oppertunity this year was not to voucherise ( a`la cash for clunkers ) a small percentage of the stimulus and build a grass roots consensus around decarbonisation. Real people getting real new biolers, double glazing, a parish hall fixed, insulation.
Class war won’t work because 9a) its nasty (b) there is no policy agenda behind it to back it up. Its now too late.
Would witter more but I’m late for my Norwegian Yulebord.
And Roger I’ll deal with you later….
how many etonians/harrovians were in thatcher’s cabinet, and how amny are in the shadow cabinet now.
i am sure labour can claim the tories represent a narrow class of people, essentially themselves.
and this is a GENUINE banana skin for the tories, although labour’s bell towers lessen the argument against duck houses somewhat.
if every mp who flipped top save tax had to repay what was owed we could pay for a few extra missiles in irag and afghanistan, although the bomber was from londonstan so that kinda messes the argument.
a study of every dodgy college and dodgy student with the savings made is another option; with everyone who lived illegally returned to their local islamic studies, with no recourse.
knowing thta those caused would face immediate repatriation, with no amnesty, ever, based on terrorist risks, would be a vote winner. with the WWC anyway!
PfP — did u throw a bit of cash on that ‘crazy’ sounding bet?
324 FPT, James Kelly,
Well, the Labour Party certainly share some of the blame (for sure more than the SNP, but I am not inclined to let the SNP off completely!).
Let me put the question another way.
If I was a Scottish, I’d want an inquiry into the running of RBS. In fact, I am Welsh, and I want an inquiry — but if I was Scottish, I’d be rioting in the streets over the damage to Scotland.
In the same way that Shell misled shareholders on oil reserves, so RBS certainly appear to have made some statements on their exposure to sub-prime that were not correct before the rights issue.
Possible criminal acts committed in Scotland would fall within the purview of Holyrood, and would certainly warrant investigation by Scottish police and the Scottish Parl’ment.
So, why don’t the SNP set up an inquiry into the running of RBS ?
20 - you might be surprised how many wealthy, public school educated people are in the Labour cabinet….
16 - no doubt Gabble will be on, as he was last year, to tell us that Cameron’s time was rubbish and Brown would have beaten it comfortably. He’ll then be followed by Nick Palmer stating that, contrary to the obvious, Cameron is actually fatter than Brown.
Both these things have happened, and so they may well do again…
Every breath and media minute Labour waste on their stupid Class war is OK by me.
But why interrupt an opponent when they are making mistakes? said Napoleon.
@john I’m ‘hoping’ I’ll win a bet for a ‘change’!
Well done to Richard and YS, both of whose posts I have thoroughly enjoyed reading over the last year.
15 Nah - call me flower
We had a housekeeper when I was small, she was called Mrs Phillipson and she did everything from shopping to ironing. I used to go to her house for tea everyday after primary school as my parents worked really long hours.
She was an amazing old lady - who put up with my rather narrow food preferences [such as grilled liver sandwiches every day for several months in a row
].
I gather liver sandwiches aren’t top of the current primary school menu options! Yummy though.
22. Gwynfa - and there was me thinking we’d escaped the FPT! This was my response -
321. “So — was there a political party that contributed — just possibly contributed, I use no stronger word — to the feeling of recklessness in RBS?”
Yes, and dare I suggest (in the friendliest of spirits) that party was the Labour Party, holding as they did all the relevant reserved powers?
Interesting vocabulary you use about the SNP - ‘encouraged’, ‘contributed to a feeling‘. It’s all a bit wispy and unsubstantial, isn’t it? If they’d held the actual powers, all this stuff would be somewhat more convincing.
I think Sunny is wildly, and hilariously, wrong, and I’m not surprised that polling bears me out. I therefore hope the Labour Party take his advice.
Incidentally, it’s “Hundal”, not “Hindal”.
Liebour bang on about fairness but is it fair that this government takes the taxes of middle and lower income families and pi55es much of it up a wall?
Interestingly I find the Nuclear Weapons issue of note. Only 1% of those think this issue is pressing but it has dramatic consequences. Disarmament is not really an issue nor should be Trident replacement but likely middle eastern wars.
In the 1990s the Terrorism that pervaded the years beyond 2000 could clearly be identitified as a likely problem in this decade. From the radical islamisation of some groups to the persistant yet relatively ineffectual attacks against US interests. It was something that was going to happen.
In the next decade if we look at the build up to that decade with places like North Korea and Iran acquiring Nuclear weapons and the infrastructure to build them then none of us should be too surprised if a regional war starts that may trip over into Nuclear exchanges, likely to be limited to regional nuclear wars yet they will have profound concequences on climate and global population. I think this is highly likely and indeed it is only a matter of time before Isreal IMO attacks Iran to try and pre-empt any attack.
If they fail in their objective then Iran is likely to try an all out Nuclear attack once they have enough weaponery and Iran lets remember is quite well equiped militarily! Indeed I think they still have over 100 Iraqi fighters from the first Gulf War that were flown there on Iraqi orders to “save them” from US bombing. Yet their is still dopubt as to whether they are functuanal etc. Iran is ranked second only to Isreal in the region in terms of airforce.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/airforce.htm
29. Apologies, jumping to conclusions, that was your response to my response. This inquiry suggestion just seems a bit eccentric to me - I haven’t even noticed the SNP’s strongest critics suggesting it. What I have noticed, though, is their strongest critics moaning whenever they announce an inquiry into anything that may touch on reserved issues (notably broadcasting).
28 Yuk! Actually I will eat most things willingly but grilled liver is one of the few things I have never been able to stand. I disliked it so much as a child that it was the only thing my mother accepted I would not eat, and would cook something else for me when the family had liver and bacon.
But devilled kidneys on toast is a different matter entirely… in fact I must go and make some bread so I can have some for breakfast tomorrow.
last price matched: $3.24 — which means odds of 6.76-3.24 — the contracts expiring at $10 or $0…
is it fair that this government takes the taxes of middle and lower income families and pi55es much of it up a wall?
There is a school of thought that says that your money is not really yours anyway, and when you die it should (apart from a small amount that you are generously allowed to keep) be ‘returned to the people’.
Viewed through that prism it’s amazing they confiscate as little as they do.
Incidentally an article on Labourlist explains that in fact the Tories are indulging in class warfare, not Labour. By such mean and devious tactics such as abolishing the 50% tax bracket, increasing the death tax threshold etc, Conservatives are class warmongering blue in tooth and claw.
Imagine that - letting people keep their own money is class warfare…
The answer to your question is that it all depends - as Clinton would say - what you think the meaning of the word ‘fair’ is….
From Iain Dale
Political Gaffe of the Year
1. Gordon Brown saying “I saved the world”.
2. Jacqui Smith’s expenses
3. Gordon Brown gurning on YouTube
Political Hate Figure of 2009
1. Gordon Brown
2. Ed Balls
3. Nick Griffin
Political Moment of the Year
1. Dan Hann’s speech attacking Gordon Brown
2. Joanna Lumley ripping into Phil Woolas
3. Day One of th Telegraph’s coverage of the expenses scandal
What an excellent idea to split award!
Posters who appreciate the conviviality of this gesture might like to vote for a similary arrangement in the Tipster Of The Year contest, where we have a joint entry, The Twin Towers (aka Peter from Putney and Peter the Punter), PB’s answer to Jedward.
In the event that we win, PfP and I have agreed to split the prize money. I wonder if Richard N and Yellow Sub will be doing likewise?
Looks to me that labour are on poor ground on all 8 of the top issues identified above.
Oh dear
32 - Martin, how is your transportation situation these days?
34 Kidneys EWEH!
Just the smell of them makes me go green
Like George Bush Snr
“I do not like broccoli. And I haven’t liked it since I was a little kid and my mother made me eat it. And I’m President of the United States and I’m not going to eat any more broccoli.”
- I won’t eat broccoli either, he made great movies though
The SNP needs to destroy Labour’s reputation for competence in Scotland.
Therefore if they could setup an enquiry into the running and operation of Scottish based banks it could be onto a winner.
To date the SNP’s activities has clearly not made much progress since 2007 and over half Scotland are likely to be returning Labour MPs at the GE.
From Iain Dale -
All-time Greatest Political Parties of the World, Ever -
1. Conservatives
2. David Cameron’s Conservatives
3. Conservative and Unionist Party
4. Conservatives and National Liberals
5. Tories
Interesting selection of topics - but it’s depressing (to me, anyway) to note the absence of privacy and/or civil liberties.
nice piece by Neil Ferguson on the ending decade — that witnessed a radical shift of power from the West to the East. Via RCP
Excellent day in the cricket - score 100 in the morning tomorrow then bowl them out!
England 386/5, lead by 43, at stumps.
Going to need to score quickly tomorrow morning to hav a decent hance at forcing a win, I would think.
42. “To date the SNP’s activities has clearly not made much progress since 2007…”
You clearly didn’t notice the European election results. SNP 29%, Labour 21%. I could also mention the recent Ipsos-Mori poll as well, but I think I can hear the squeals of protest from certain posters already…
46/47
In my lifetime, the only two half-decent Labour leaders were Clement Atlee (Haileybury + University College, Oxford) and Hugh Gaitskell (Winchester + New College, Oxford). I met Gaitskell in my youth - he was a really nice bloke.
Given Tim’s marxist class hatred, neither of these should have been Labour leader. Mind you, neither should that creature Blair (Fettes + St John’s, Oxford).
As for that con-merchant Wilson (2 good grammar schools + Jesus, Oxford). The hole left by the white heat of the pound in my pocket left scars for years.
43 - From his readers actually.
But what do his readers know anyway, when they vote like this
Scottish Politician of the Year
1. Alex Salmond
2. Annabelle Goldie
3. Nicola Sturgeon
http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2009/12/devolved-politicians-of-year.html#links
Everyone knows it should have been Tavish Scott at number 1.
This assumes that there aren’t a whole lot of anti-banker, anti-poverty attitudes wrapped up in amongst “Economy/economic situation” & ” Unemployment/Factory closure/Lack of Industry”.
Conversely, I don’t see “Cost of Krug/Squeeze on My Bonus/Let’s Go Hunting” in that list.
I think Tom’s wrong.
43. James Kelly.
Disclaimer
I should make clear that this poll is a bit of end of year fun. Those who vote only represent themselves and this inevitably means there will be inbuilt biases - not least because the voting choices have all been nominated by a self selecting audience. I’m not asking other bloggers to encourage their readers to take part, so I am not pretending the results will show any sort of political balance whatsoever. It is Just. A. Bit. Of. Fun.
46/47 - Has been the first time in a long time, I haven’t been cursing Ian Bell.
44 Agreed - sometimes I feel that only those with a strong sense of what HMG should do, rather than what it can do, has been lost.
The ’something must be done’ meme and ‘what are the Government going to do about it’ culture is the result of years of nannying/bugger all personal responsibility.
I wouldn’t dream of having children that I couldn’t pay for, nor expect the State to subsidise my existence unless I was in temporary extemis.
51. “From his readers actually.”
Well, quite! It’s like that “Yes, Prime Minister” joke - “you can hardly get a more diverse bunch than us, a real cross-section of the nation”.
But the real joke was the Northern Ireland result - according to readers of Iain Dale’s Diary, Ian Paisley is the Northern Ireland politician of 2009!
*crikets* nobody’s excited about this Obama market!
oh well, I’ll close my phone and get back to that firecamp on the Ko Samui beach. Life is hard. Btw the beta version of intrade for mobile is pretty good.
56 - Considering how much Ian Paisley has moved politically in recent years, he deserves all the plaudits he gets.
Seriously, 5 yrs ago, Had i said “The DUP led by Ian Paisley, and Sinn Fein will be form a power sharing executive”, i’d have been sectioned
40. Tim B December 28th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
I rely on two feet!
I have also discovered i need new shoes as the current ones cause an achilees tendon problem. Something to do with the angle of the shoe when walking and height of the back of the shoe!
I thought i was getting Gout to start with!
FPT. 242. Yellow Submarine (Deputy POTY). Before you set your rapier like pen onto me…..
…Sorry if my comments about your haven’t been as supportive and Christmassy as most on here but yesterday’s post that the fox hunting ban should be repealed because to continue it is an assault on freedom was for me a step too far.
Do the feelings of dumb animals not count if they interfere in the pleasure of those who hunt them? Humans take pleasure in all sorts of undesirable things but what I always admired about Lib Dems was that they were interested in the the rights of the oppressed-particularly those not able to speak for themselves.
Anyway my non endorsement was sure to have added a few waverers to your column and I do enjoy reading your posts!
Chelsea 0-1 Fulham; does anyone actually want to win this league?
56 What is so surprisingly terrible about that result?
I’m astonished how far Dr No has moved on from the past and has supported the new ways of working. A brave man.
58. “Seriously, 5 yrs ago, Had i said “The DUP led by Ian Paisley, and Sinn Fein will be form a power sharing executive”, i’d have been sectioned”
Absolutely. And if Ian Paisley had been involved in that power-sharing executive in any way - even as a tea-boy - in 2009, he would richly deserve his award as the NI Politician of 2009.
exit question: is our aristocratic Stars and Stripes still alive?
19
“Would witter more but I’m late for my Norwegian Yulebord.”
Oooh. You’re a braver man than me YS. Having been to way too many Julebords over the last few years I decided to give it amiss this year and flew home on the day of the event.
I can only take so many drunken Norwegians reenacting scenes from ‘The Vikings’.
Hope you have a good hangover cure at the ready.
61 I think Roy Hodgson would like to!
63 - A bit like SPOTY, this catergory has merged into a lifetime achievement award.
62. “What is so surprisingly terrible about that result?”
Plato, see 63. I’m beginning to wonder if anyone has actually noticed Peter Robinson replaced Paisley as both First Minister and DUP leader last year.
33 James Kelly,
Maybe the idea is eccentric — but I have to say I think the collapse of RBS (and to a lesser extent HBOS) has done a lot of damage to Scotland. As I suggested on the previous thread, an iconic Scottish brand redolent of probity and prudence has been trashed.
I would have thought that Scots (and hence the SNP) might be interested in how it happened.
But, having made the suggestion, I must admit I did do some more Googling into the key figures of the ABN Ambro takeover — and I can see why the SNP might not be so keen !!
DYOR.
68 - It’s a bit like when John Swinney replaced Alex Salmon as leader of the SNP, we all knew who the superstar leader really was, regardless of the title.
Congratulations to Ricard and Yellow Sub, worthy winners in a very strong field.
This class war theme is toxic for Labour, just as the poll tax was for Maggie. She was right to dismiss tuition fees on the grounds that a Tory government could not be seen to implement such a policy. At least on the poll tax, her reasoning was right on helping working home owners. But class attacks coming from Labour sounds like a direct and very negative attack on aspiration, especially after their the portfolio of policies and taxation over the last 12 years.
And who is going to sell it, because it cannot be privately educated Labour Ministers for starters?
Weatherspoof.
Revenge of the Sith.
Time: 6 weeks after the General Election.
Scene: The Prime Ministers office.
Cameron: Six weeks, six weeks and they haven’t got through yet!
Hague: They’re nearly through, I heard a report from the cellars an hour ago.
Clarke: (just coming into the room and puffing) They’re through! I saw the bit enter the other side.
Cameron: So how long now?
Osborne: (sliding into to the room) A couple of hours at the most. Who would have thought the bastard would do it.
Hague: He must have been planning this ever since he became PM. I always thought he looked mad, but to have it proven, well.
A small commotion as Gove and Grayling and Herbert in their shirt sleeves and covered with dust, crowd in the room.
Gove: Isn’t there anyone else to do the drilling? Us three with Fox and Hammond have been badgering away for weeks now. Why cant Pickles do some work?
Cameron: You know that this thing, this secret must be kept in as small a circle as possible and besides you know that Pickles is too fat to be digging. No his job is to keep the press away and spin like mad until we get to the bottom of this. Where have you all got too?
Herbert: well be through in a jiffy; do you know that door is 4 foot thick, where did he get the steel from?
Gove: He must have had it delivered piecemeal under the old civil defence tunnels. What a rotter!
Time: An hour Later.
Scene: Entrance to an open steel door as to a safe, but huge and leading to a small room.
Cameron: Six bloody weeks I’ve waited for this.
Osborne: What do you mean you waited? I’m the Chancellor. Just wait till I get my hands on the books.
Cameron: Yes, well, where are they Hammond?
Hammond: They must be in that box there, it’s the only thing in the room.
Clarke: Fancy hiding the Nations accounts down here and making us as a new government sweat. I’m sure the PM was a Trotskyite.
Cameron: Open the bloody damned thing then.
Fox, using a jemmy opens the box.
Fox: Blimey there’s only a notebook down here.
Cameron: Well give it to me then.
Cameron with all the crowd round him opens the notebook.
Cameron: OMG! It just says we are broke.
Getting back to the Labour leadership, is seem to recall somewhere that there are a whole batch of young Turks in the upper echelons of the Labour Party who are turning 40 in very short order.
Obviously Ed Balls already has (42), then Yvette Cooper who turned 40 earlier this year, Ed Miliband turned 40 on Christmas Eve, and Andy Burnham turns 40 in January.
Might this just tilt the debate in favour of a change in leadership.
Mind you, we’ve all speculated soooooooooooooooooooooo much on this topic, perhaps i really should turn it in now, and give up.
Haha, i resign officially from the ‘When will gordo go club’.
4 - Phillipe, are you up to speed with the situation in Iran (I recall you as being someone interested before)? It’s a gradual, incremental revolution but we’re getting closer to a tipping point and, with the arrests today, it appears that Ahmedinajad is running out of ideas.
69. “DYOR.”
Gwynfa, DMTCOEYOAF.
69 You tease! Do tell what you unearthed.
And I agree about Scottish reputation for fiscal competence. I put it on a par with Italy these days, perhaps even lower.
Most people aspire to something: self-improvement, higher living standards, improving their community, Watford winning the European Cup and so on. By an overwhelming majority I believe people aspire to improve their and their families’ standard of living. Look like you are against that and you will not win an election. All of this class war nonsense and the NI rise I think helps the mantle of aspiration passing from what was New Labour to the Tories.
Look back at the eighties. Why did Maggie get so many votes from what would have been seen as natural Labour WWC voters? Aspiration. The council house purchase scheme gave people the belief they could own their own home. If you watched the “Tory, Tory, Tory” series, one of the key aims of that scheme was to give something people would want to conserve, therefore making them Conservatives. Of course when the ERM ejection caused interest rates to lurch upwards and put that aspiration at risk, then the Tories dropped like a stone. Blair was expert at selling the belief that you could aspire to improve your own living standard and provide improved public services for little or no extra cost. Whether or not that is the case is an interesting debate in itself, but that has been New Labour’s USP. Brown and Labour seem to have lost that understanding already.
So in the end “Class War” is pointless to the floating middle though it may energise the base. The real battle will always be about aspiration. If you were Cameron would you want to loose a class war or an aspiration war?
PS. On the other hand, apparently it is the Tories doing a class war, not Labour…
http://www.labourlist.org/tories-are-the-only-ones-fighting-a-class-war-toby-flux
59 - or could it be because you have to cope with all that snow….my daughter is in Yorkshire now, coming home tomorrow, and she says she’s never seen so much snow there.
76. I don’t know what that says about the UK then - Italy have just pushed the country into seventh place in the GDP rankings!
78 - It’s going to get worse later on this week.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/6893844/Snow-and-ice-to-hit-Britain-at-New-Year.html
Tim,
When the Tories get established back in power, I suspect the young Rees-Mogg may become the template.
20 - it was a Tory bellhouse, Davies bught it when he was a Tory MP!
Tim B December 28th, 2009 at 3:49 pm “my daughter is in Yorkshire now, coming home tomorrow, and she says she’s never seen so much snow there.”
You sound like a global warming denier. Do not forget that after a damp summer and this frozen winter that the Met Office say that this has been one of our warmest years ever.
All this talk about change of the decade - I had quite forgotton how the change of Millennium was celebrated after 31 December 1999 rather than 31 December 2000.
(Note to Tim on earlier thread Millennium always has two “N”s, it comes from “Mille”, Thousand and “Annus”, Year. Anus means something quite different, as therefore does Millenium.)
The politics of hatred rarely play well. I have no doubt that the envy which Labour exuded in 1983 and 1987 went much more towards re-electing Margaret Thatcher than anything the Tories themselves promised.
I am one of those Tories who isn’t overly taken by David Cameron although I am bright enough to understand the logic behind his minimalist public utterances. But, why should be say more when Clegg falls for a gambit like Cameron’s yesterday, hook, line and sinker.
So, the Lib Dems aren’t a bit like the Tories eh Mr Clegg ? Better not re-elect Lib Dems in formerly safe Conservative seats next year then, I would think.
69 - Scotland’s profile on the world stage, assuming it has one, is like a junior Finland without the power and charisma.
Most Americans know three things about Scotland, and that’s about it. In no particular order:
Braveheart
Parsimonious with money
Scotch
- and also, unfortunately, Megrahi, which has completely obscured everything else including the above.
80 It’s fascinating that when we get smothered in snow/ice - its just unusual weather [and so we don't need to plan for it] - and when we get any other event such as warm days, freak floods and windy days - it’s a harbinger of drastic climate change
Here have some snow fall records
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/27/877-new-snowfall-records-set-or-tied-in-the-usa-in-the-last-week/
82 - No, it’s a labour bell tower
He put in an invoice for £20,700 for roof repairs, including the bell tower, on his country home, in December 2008, telling officials to work out how much he could be repaid.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1235930/Quentin-Davies-claims-row-20-000-bell-tower-claim-just-joke.html
73. DingDangSure December 28th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
Gordon Brown killed Labour in the early summer by refusing to go.
This is why Labour have rolled over - Any change of leadership now will mean more problems for Labour electorally. Interestingly I can think of no precident where a PM has left office within months of the last date of thier parties term in office - in other words it is too late. Some might cite Churchill or even macmillan but they still has about 1 year left IIRC and more importantly they had won there own mandate. Brown has been PM too long to go on any basis now even ill - health. Labour are screwed! 
It is too late and Labour will have to reep what they have sown - FAILURE!!!
86 - Me freezing my nuts of this last week has made me doubt global warming even more.
83 - I pass on a comment that my daughter made about how much snow there is, and you immediately deduce from that comment that I’m a global warming denier? What have you been inhaling?
I miss snow, I grew up in the Pennines and we were snowed out for days every year (with accompanying days off school). Earlier this year I had only my second and third snow days as a teacher, it’s nice to wake up to a snowbound world and a text message saying ‘don’t come in’ (although the students were given two extra days from our training days so I bet they were happy!)
Of course with temperatures that weren’t exactly cold and a smattering of snow these wussy southerners down here were moaning incessantly before Christmas.
They don’t know what cold is!
Hope everyone had a lovely Christmas. The Turkey is no more, Fitaloon and I did our annual Christmas combo in the kitchen, and we didn’t fall out! Thanks to the dramatic swing in temperatures on Christmas eve which saw a big thaw before dropping like a stone again after a huge dump of snow, all minor roads are like ice rinks up our way.
Can I also recommend the Beringer sparkling rose(on special offer at the Coop), it really is nice. Not a fan of sparkling wines normally, but this one is worth trying.
no paul, not anymore. I’ve only seen disturbing images on tv yesterday. But I’ve already swore I’ll fly to Teheran in the aftermath of the now boiling revolution. Fascinating people; it is very humbling to witness such a raw courage in the face of state violence. I’ve not followed it since September.
60, Correction ‘POTY’! Well done Richard and YS.
On topic. There is no need for Labour to electioneer on the background of the new Tory elite. It’s already out there and those who prefer meritocrats know where not to vote without being told by ‘Mr Clunking Fist’.
I rather hope one of the unions puts up a funny poster that refers to ‘it’ because whatever anyone says privilage treated in a non bitter way is a negative for the Tories.
Looking at MORI’s list of the electorates priorities at the top I reckon Michael Howard would have walked it. Horrible thought.
89 You have my sympathies Mr Eagles - even down here within 6 miles of the Channel, it’s been effing freezing - my little internet weather station has had the local temps hovering around freezing most days.
The forecast is for sleet, rain and grey cloud cover for all this week
I’d rather have snow, at least it’s fun and pretty [and makes everything SO QUIET!]
90 - It’s comments like that, that causes polar bears to fall from the sky.
91 - UKPaul, I grew up in the Pennines too. I remember the winter of 1963-64: it was really cold with lots of snow.
When the ground froze at school so we couldn’t play soccer or rugby we would have to go for a 5 mile run - freezing cold and only shorts and a singlet, which encouraged faster times :-).
95 - I’ve gone through 8 cans of de-icer since a week last friday.
It’s bizarre.
89 but TSE you need to plant vines to grow grapes and follow all the other Met Office advice.
86 Plato, clearly those USA snow statistics have not benefited from the CRU’s “Smoothing” expertise.
Maybe the 1976 summer heatwave never really happened and summer 2009 just seemed colder because I am older? Did we really have a Minister for Drought?
96 - you’re right TSE, one fell on my car radio antenna and bent it. Now I can no longer get FM.
97. “When the ground froze at school so we couldn’t play soccer or rugby we would have to go for a 5 mile run - freezing cold and only shorts and a singlet, which encouraged faster times :-).”
…. in t’ shoebox in t’ middle o’ road.
99 - yes, he was sports minister, and became minster for drought, then when the autumn arrived with torrential rain (not raining polar bears but just cats and dogs) he became minister for floods. I think his name was Howell.
93 - You should, things are awful to watch but also heartening in a way. Sullivan’s team is live blogging at The Atlantic (I get the impression that mainstream news is deliberately downplaying things so as not to give the regime ammunition over ‘interference’).
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/
Karroubi’s statement yesterday was incendiary and (as before) people are looking to Rafsanjani.
Tim B December 28th, 2009 at 4:01 pm “What have you been inhaling?”
CRU statistics!
101 - I never even dreamed of a shoebox - all we ‘ad were an ‘ole in’t middle of ‘t road….
- and winning 2 games in December to get into the playoffs
Both RN and YS are poty! Heck, I knew that even before we voted!
Congratulations to them, to the other finalists, to the nominees and all us pbers!!!
i’m off. Folks, don’t spend too much time in front of that screen; go play with your loved ones. Happy holidays to all. *Obama! Obama!* *and praying for the Iranian people*
“When the ground froze at school so we couldn’t play soccer or rugby we would have to go for a 5 mile run - freezing cold and only shorts and a singlet, which encouraged faster times :-).”
Me too, though growing up in a valley the first half of the run was nearly vertical up followed by a very dangerous slide down nearly vertically after it!
(though in 1963-4 I was still a couple of years off being born
)
104 - I wonder if weather records - like employment ones - are ’seasonally adjusted’?
Obama can sod off, useless socialist.
As for this poll, it shows the top 10 things people are interested in are ones Labour cannot fight an election on, they have been disastrous with everyone of them.
102 so Tim B the reason we have not needed another Minister for Drought in 33 years is that all this warming is producing more rain and not drying us out in the summer……?
So the CRU way of heating a home would be through spraying cold water on your roof?
thanks paul, i will.
104 - I think, our weights should be seasonally adjusted too. Especially at christmas.
107 Happy hols, Philippe.
96 Surely you mean polling bears on this site ?
For those who have less time on their hands than me, did you know that polar bears are genetically descended from brown ones?
http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF13/1314.html
And that they are actually black-skinned with white fur?
108 - my house master was a retired major and his favorite phrase to ask on those cold days was “Are you a man or a jellyfish?”
109 Tim B maybe some temperature gauges are counted out as being unfit for work and they just count the ones that sit in new housing estates?
105, TB - youse had a nice warm hole in the middle of the road to enjoy? All we had was a small rock on the MI, behind which we’d cower when the lorries came through!!!!!
Having just rewatched a classic episode of Blackadder today, I think this is the definitive explanation for all this cold weather
“The cold weather is just God’s way of telling us to burn more catholics at the stake”
TimB 85. The Scottish Government had the guts to tell the Yanks where to get off about the release of Magrahi, which was totally justified in Scots law. The Labour Government in London is conspicuous by its total submission to its Master in Washington. When Broon is treated as a total nonentity by Obama, he just broon-tongues all the more.
The biggest loss of reputation on the world stage, and with the Americans in particular, was the defeat of British forces in Basra, due entirely to the incompetence of the politicians in London.
I’ve gone through 8 cans of de-icer since a week last friday.
TSE - I’ve stuck pretty much to 15 year old Glenlivet, but hey - different strokes for different folks
119 HHAHAHA - did you find it on YouTube?
82 But Quentin showed his true colours as a New Labour man in not fixing the roof when the sun was shining but waiting until it leaked and then getting the taxpayer to cover the damage…
122 - No, one of my friends bought me the complete blackadder dvd boxset for Christmas.
I remember 1978/9 as being the worst, the town was cut off for days. One of those times when you had to dig yourself out of the house. We went down to the golf course for ‘placcy bagging’ (no sledges for us), using binliners.
(Seeing if this was a widespread thing I’m shocked to find that there are only six (now seven) references on google to it)
116. TimB.What was your prep school? It sounds like mine!
119 - I watched some over Christmas too, including the one featuring the wise woman of Putney.
116 - up the A65 from Skipton…
121 - It’s the reason I went into work 3 times last week, completely high.
Well done YS.
Many thanks to ‘The Twin Towers’ for Keki Buku. I took 4.3.
I have to admit, getting DVD’s/Blu rays as presents can be a hit and miss.
I was given “Tiger Woods best 18 holes” I was disappointed to find out it was a golfing DVD.
98.TSE, we need some salt for our paths, not a drop to be had anywhere around here. Rewatched that rather over dramatic programme from last year about the snow they experienced down South, and have to say it looks even more over the top considering what we are experiencing this year. You cannot plan a prevention of adverse winter weather, and the fact that some in the UK still think that you can is simple daft.
Half the problems we have encountered are down to folk simple believing that they can go on as normal and expect to travel when its snowing a blizzard, and that if they then clog the roads so the snow plows and gritters cannot get through and do their job, its then got to be some elses fault.
One of the reasons that we don’t get some of these problems up here are down to a more scattered and lower population on the roads, but sometimes you just have to accept that staying at home is the only option until the roads and weather conditions are more safe to travel in. There is a good reason why we sometimes get angry at stupid climbers going out on the hills at this time of year and then have to call on our excellent volunteers to risk their own lives rescuing them. The police have been forced to close the snow gates in some of our roads a few times over the last week, they could maybe do with a few of those in places down South.
131 - Groan…!
125 - I remember 78-79 as being the winter of discontent, rather than the weather. We were emigrating in jan 79, but with all the strikes it looked as if the movers would not be able to pack and ship our furniture, the only way of getting enough petrol was to rent cars (they always came with a full tank), and we never did get to say goodbye in person to our families.
128 - Just found this on the web (nearest to me would have been Buxton) for 1978/9
“Days of snow lying from Robin Stirling ‘Weather of Britain’
Bramaer 96
Edinburgh 30
Eskdalemiur 62
Buxton 82
Birmingham 62
Kew 25
Buxton had more days snow lying than 1962/63 when it had 74. “
re 80 Ah typical Telegraph insisting on using Fahrenheit when there’s probably no-one alive except Simon Heffer who still thinks in Fahrenheit.
125 In 78, Newcastle was totally stopped due to huge snow falls - I was 10 and together with another schoolchum we trudged the 7 miles to school - arriving at about 11am.
I still can’t believe our parents thought this was reasonable or sensible [mind you I got sent to school with Scarlet Fever once too on the premise that 'you'll feel better when you get there']
There were about 6 kids there and we were immediately sent home - by that time a few buses were running and it took another 7 hrs to get back [much sliding on hills and narrowly avoiding parked/stranded cars].
I think the class war narrative is a strategy of despair for Labour. However, sometimes, despair can be appropriate.
From Nick P’s reports of the C2DEs moving preferentially more against Labour and the Guardianista tendency appearing to be the strongest, it does imply that the “clumping” that has so helped Labour maximize the effect of its vote share could be subsiding - much as it did for the Liberals so long ago (and the Lib Dems only recently reversed that tendency by their assiduous localism strategy in target seats). So, as Nick himself has pointed out - a lesser swing than expected may result in a far better outcome for Labour than expected … but a bigger swing could sweep away redoubts as well as vulnerable seats.
In the longer term, the latter’s negatives far, far outweight the former’s positives for Labour - it’s not an equal bet. If things continue as Nick reports, they’d be risking a non-trivial chance of obliteration as a political party for the opportunity to minimise the scale of a near-inevitable defeat. If you were looking at holding 225 seats or so after the election, would you stake 100 seats for a potential return of another 25? (Numbers produced by the PDOMA* method).
So “despair”, and moving to a class-war strategy to shore up their “clumpiness”, accept the hit and avoid the gamble (of continuing with haemorrhaging C2DE support for middle-class liberal leaners) might be the most sensible strategy.
Then again, there’s a further gamble that they’ll alienate a large clump of middle-class waverers for a prolonged time. So it could be “go for a Labour/1983 result with high probability of success” (with concomitant toxification for several years) versus “go for a gamble between a Labour/1992 against a Liberal/1922 result with an unknown probability of success”.
Hard choice. But thene again, the Labour Party chose to inflict Gordon Brown upon us and has to live with the consequences.
*PDOMA: Engineering acronym. Third of three increasingly unreliable estimation processes (BOTE - Back Of The Envelope calculation; SWAG - Scientific Wild-A***ed Guess; PDOMA - Pulled Directly Out of My A***)
131 - apparently Tiger is not good in the sack: he’s spent his entire life getting in the hole in as few strokes as possible….
To have joint winners of POTY shows a lack of ambition and as neither of them want it outright, they should both be disqualified.
On topic (and being serious), the Class War theme will only work if Labour can link it successfully to the issues that voters really are interested in i.e. the economy, unemployment, crime and public services.
One point for Tories to note is how low taxes are on the list of issues. I find it very surprising that only 3% mentioned it specifically, compared to 9% for inflation.
125 Winter of 78/9 we were cut off for ages without power and thus heating - did even burn old chairs from loft after finishing the firewood/old trees. We didn’t have to use plastic bags, borrowed a Canadian sledge off our neighbours that carried four and went to visit my cousins from Zimbabwe, cut off on a dairy farm in Blackmore Vale, by sledging down a mile and a half from hill above us. Think we Africans enjoyed it much more than the locals.
re 83 the Met Office said that this was the warmest year several weeks ago. I wonder what the last two weeks of wintry weather has done to that calculation.
The Met Office winter forecast issued on 27th November predicted an 80% probability of near average or mild winter.
122 - Plato, found the clip on you tube. Is about 4mins in
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_U7YfCA45w
136 I prefer Fahrenheit myself - much better psychologically when it’s cold
134 - Which reminds me of freezing weather *and* power cuts in the early seventies, courtesy of the wonderful unions of the time.
136 there’s probably no-one alive except Simon Heffer who still thinks in Fahrenheit.
- and over 300 million Americans….
Celsius 232.77 just doesnt have the same impact as Fahrenheit 451.
124 - I treated myself to it on one of amazon UK’s sales: got the set for something like 15 pounds…
PBS is running something called ‘MI-5′. It looks like a beeb spy thriller - is it any good?
130 Thank you, URW. So we can rely on at least one vote?
The owners of the 101 Dalmations had a Nanny, and a very big house and everyone seemed happy for them. No sign of the class war on BBC1
98.TSE, we need some salt for our paths, not a drop to be had anywhere around here. Rewatched that rather over dramatic programme from last year about the snow they experienced down South, and have to say it looks even more over the top considering what we are experiencing this year. You cannot plan a prevention of adverse winter weather, and the fact that some in the UK still think that you can is simple daft.
Half the problems we have encountered are down to folk simple believing that they can go on as normal and expect to travel when its snowing a blizzard, and that if they then clog the roads so the snow plows and gritters cannot get through and do their job, its then got to be some elses fault.
One of the reasons that we don’t get some of these problems up here are down to a more scattered and lower population on the roads, but sometimes you just have to accept that staying at home is the only option until the roads and weather conditions are safer to travel in. There is a good reason why we sometimes get angry at stupid climbers going out on the hills at this time of year and then have to call on our excellent volunteers to risk their own lives rescuing them. The police have been forced to close the snow gates in some of our roads a few times over the last week, they could maybe do with a few of those in places down South.
1. stjohn joins the “first” club. Congrats to him!
148 - Over here it’s called Spooks.
It can be very good, thought occasionally it does miss the elephant in the room.
99
My wife was pregnant in ‘76, believe me it really happened.
145 - Yes I remember that - and getting my ration book for petrol during the first oil shock.
154 - Congratulations.
136 - Heffer uses Hefferides; the scale works a bit like Kelvin, insofar as at 0 degrees Heffer, Heffer’s temperature is perfect. Anything above, however, is when the sweat starts to come out of his great big bald head.
153. I haven’t watched Spooks in years now- the first couple of series were ace; then they killed off all the good characters as I recall.
153 - you mean it doesn’t have the literary qualities and enlightened social senses of the A Team?
re 146 they tend not to read the Telegraph
140. David Herdson: To have joint winners of POTY shows a lack of ambition and as neither of them want it outright, they should both be disqualified.
I hadn’t looked to see who finished third.
Now I don’t think I need to!
159 - They make BA look subtle.
Should be fun at the cinema next year, with the A Team film
Well if they can make a success out of remaking Star Trek..
158 - Andrew, you haven’t commented on America’s Team today…
151 Chris, after a string of snowy winters from 78 through to 84, with the A roads across the Plain and nearby downs regularly blocked by drifts Wiltshire County Council an Salisbury District finally invested in snow fences along the worst sections.
I bought a four wheel drive.
It stopped snowing.
For years driving over the downs in ever milder winters on the A350 to Warminster you could see the gradually decaying fences, never put to use intended, until finally they were gone.
hi PtP … so, thanks to a very gentlemanly move on Richard’s part, Yellow Submarine is PoTY (albeit in a joint capacity) … does that mean I’ve been saved by a stewards enquiry?
(Or should I wind my neck in and just cough up?)
In other news, the DPP once again pops up to conveniently attack a Tory policy:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8432678.stm
He was doing the same with the ‘British Bill of Rights’ a few months ago.
I do wonder just how much influence such a figure should have in public debate. Especially considering he seems to conveniently protect Labour from criticism.
I suppose its been posted, if not here it is.
So Jake Mogg, caught being ‘honest’ again, e’s a lad ‘aint ‘e.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1238900/Tory-candidate-Jacob-Rees-Mogg-red-faced-using-member-staff-pose-constituent-leaflet.html
153 I’m whispering this very quietly in the hope that OGH won’t hear, but doesn’t this Ipsos MORI Issues Index rather go against his long held view that the “It’s the economy stupid” theory is simply a myth.
As for Sunny Hindal, I suspect that like 99% of the PB audience, I’ve never heard of him.
Posh people are making a comeback.
That was a cryptic.
I thought the convention was we used Celcius for low temperatures: “Brrr, Britain Shivers as Temperatures Plunge Below Zero”, and Farenheit for high temperatures: “70, 80, 90 Degrees, Phew What a Scorcher”.
Zero as freezing point, and 100 degrees for about as hot as it ever gets on a summer’s day seems a reasonable scale. (Of course, where you switch from one to the other is debatable!)
163. Dull win over a terrible Redskins team? Well played.
164 I recall that when I first moved down South as a student, there were no snow-posts despite crappy winter weather [well an inch or two of slush that lasted 24hrs].
I mentioned it once to a group of others in my year and they looked at me as if I was touched in the head.
When I explained what they were - they couldn’t grasp the concept at all
Never forgotten it [as you can tell!]
155 In fairness,the issuing of petrol ration books (never actually activated) occured during the dying months of Heath’s Tory govt
172 I concede as a soft southerner,you northerners have the upper hand on hard winters!
PB gets Political website of the Year
http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2009/12/best-blogs-bloggers-of-2009-as-voted.html
175 - and OGH comes second…..as Blog Personality of the Year.
The odds with William Hill on Gordon Brown leading Labour at the next election are incredible. Our host rated 5/1 that Gordon Brown would stand down before the election as “about right” this morning (I would rate it as too short by some way, myself), so 4/7 that he will lead Labour into the next election is extraordinary.
While Richard Nabavi is right to note the opportunities to guarantee profits, surely the right thing to do here is to lump as much as you can with Hills and not hedge it at all?
173 As a resident of the official ’sunniest place in the UK’ and about as far south as one can go in mainland UK, I’m happy to be a softie
173 - It all took place under the Heath government. They then went to the country in 1974 on the theme of who runs the country, and the people decided that the unions did.
It was at that point I decided my future probably lay outside the UK.
Fahrenheit is more convenient than Celsius for precise gradations of measurement, being 9/5 times more graded.
And as Archroy rightly notes at 170, cold temperatures are measured in Celsius (”it was -10 last week”) and warm temperatures in Fahrenheit (”I’m baking, it must be way over 90″).
175 Many congrats Mike, richly deserved!
“Class war” looks petty and trivial. And since not even all Labour politicians can agree on its use, it also makes Labour look divided.
Labour would be better attacking the Conservatives as deeply shallow. There is material there, but they are failing to use it.
178 Being native to the north-east,over the last 10-15 years you must have thought ‘Christ,winters are mild’
One moment I remember as a student:
A week before Xmas in 1988 it was exceptionslly mild,15 Celsius at night.I walked down the road in T-shirt and jeans at 9ish at night-and stopped in my tracks,thinking ‘I should not be dressed like this a week before Xmas!’
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/weather/6901002/Warnings-of-more-snow-for-Britain-as-predictions-of-mild-winter-fall-flat.html
151
Christina
Stoke on Trent is fun in snow. As it is very hilly and most drivers have zero idea whne it snows, the whole road system stops behind two or three drivers who cannot navigate up (or down) a hill.
The best 4×4 is of course useless in that of course: in fact the smaller cars are better - they have such chance of threading through past blocked cars.
Best fun is watching BMW drivers - rwd cars are pigs in snow especially with wide summer tyres so they just skid..
Biddulph Moor showed that as a fellow yoga student driving a BMW always got stuck whilst my wife’s 15 year old fwd Peugeot 106 always got through.. ( the BMW driver got fed up and bought a Mini as she had to rely on me for a lift!)
Like you, we just give up driving in bad weather and walk.. Of course we do get power cuts every winter.. UPS sorts the PC - although the internet goes and LPG heater solves the heating. candles and torches do the rest.
Some people don’t know what winter is..
(I hasten to add we are NOT in the country : just on the edge of the Peak District)
Ali G: “So what if you got busy with my sister? You wouldn’t like it ‘cos she ain’t the cleanest girl out there! Um, well it can be arranged. She’d be keen!”
Rees-Mogg: “You speculating on my having a relationship with somebody I’ve never met and that leading to a child being born and then as to what class it might be is so..uh..far fetched..um..as to be ridiculous. I have no idea what..”
Ali G: “What you think you is too good for my sister?”
Rees-Mogg: “Certainly not. No I wouldn’t dream…”
Ali G: “You is. No, you is though. She’s is rank. She’s nothing. Believe me, even my mum cuss her, tell her she’s a slag!”
182 - I think Labour’s best strategy, would be to try and seperate Cameron from the rest of the Tory party.
Yes, he’s a nice man, but what about the rest of the them.
184
the Met office have a 100% failure record in 2009!
“Richard has been gracious enough to suggest that they should be joint winners and I agree. So the PB Posters of 2009 are Richard and Yellow Submarine.”
Good result imo.
@@@
Student union activists can’t do the class war stuff right - so Harris is right although i do think there’s mileage in it if done properly - hint, it’s almost nothing to do with what a marxist would call class war and almost entirely to do with historic paranoia.
The obvious tack for them to take is over trust and the Lisbon thing - call him “Cast-Iron” Cameron and scare the lulled ones that he can’t be trusted over his NHS promise. I think that would work after the Lisbon thing.
Trouble is their real strategy problem isn’t about that - it’s about what happens if the anti-Cameron strategy worked and it looked like they might win i.e a gilt strike and economic melt-down. So a plan for that second hurdle is actually more important than an anti-Cameron line.
Seems to me the obvious thing for that second hurdle is scape-goating the banks much more than they have - not in a class war way but a “justice” way after blaming them for everything. However i think they needed to do that 6 months to a year ago to get enough steam up.
180 Celsius/Centigrade was forced upon us principally by the Met Office/BBC. Sensibly the Americans have stayed with Fahrenheit.
179
The reason that ‘Heath’ lost that election, (although it was more a draw) had by the end of the campaign very little to do with the unions. Heath’s handling of the issue during the campaign was just dire.
175
I’ll bet ID was really really pleased, his site didn’t get a place.
188 - So they are a bit like Sion Simon in 2007
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase
166 He’s also missing the point.
“”We would only ever bring a prosecution where we thought that the degree of force was unreasonable in such a way that the jury would realistically convict.”
Surely the point is that the reasonable/unreasonable test is unworkable, and should be replaced with “not grossly disproportionate” or somesuch.
The problem is that any householder who tackles a burglar really should be using disproportionate force if they are to successfully defend themselves and their family, and not risk getting into a fight and losing. In addition, you should be able to use a level of force to prevent the crime and to detain the burglar while you wait for the police to arrive, it should not just be down to self-defence.
If the burglar offers lethal force - eg is armed with a knife - you need to able to render the burglar incapable of using it, which means enough force to at least severely disable.
We really do need to stop worrying so much about people who choose to break into peoples’ homes and have the sh1t kicked out of them by the householder.
AndrewG - are you an NFL fan? I’m going to my first live game next Sunday (watching my beloved Cincinnati Bengals play the NY Jets at the final game at Giants Stadium - I’m in Lower Sideline row 1 on the 50-yard line, right behind the Bengals bench!)
You should take a look at this: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/playoffscenario?algorithm=WinningPct
I’m thinking about penning an article on Playoffs/Superbowl betting soon.
If anyone is up for watching the games on TV in London on the 16th/17th January, drop me a line at morus [AT] politicalbetting.com
I don’t need Iain Dale’s readers to tell me that this is the political website of the year (and every year). Why are such surveys taken seriously?
193
I give him three months to be sacked after a row engineered by the incoming Government.
Hopefully in disgrace.
187. The Screaming Eagles December 28th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
The downside from Labours point of view is that the Tories are no longer the issue - even i should imagine with Labour leaning voters.
The Labour hardcore, who would vote Labour even if a lump of dog shit nailed to a chair was leading them dont like Tories but that cannot be worth maybe anymore than 20% in an election out of all those turning out to vote. The issue is Economic failure caused by Labour and Gordon Brown - The other issue of Gordon Brown is i think interesting because i feel it cuts across a whole number of seats in different ways and will cause some previously safe Labour seats to fall. Either way Labour are doomed and I dont think going on about Fox hunting or Tories in general will do them much good. It puzzles me why Labour want to go on governning as they are just making it worse for themselves in the long run!
Congratulations to both Richard and Yellow Submarine. But the real POTY winners are the rest of us, who have posters of such calibre to read on a regular basis.
Off topic, I was brought up in NWLeicestershire and still visit it very, very regularly. The general view there appears to be that the Tories will now take the seat but that David Taylor, who was liked and admired even by his political opponents, will be completely irreplaceable.
There is muttering, however, about the growing popularity of the BNP and it shouldn’t be forgotten that nearby Coalville elected a BNP Councillor last May. Those people who - rightly - think of Leicestershire as the heartland of the foxhunting fraternity and who therefore assume - wrongly - that it’s full of well-heeled toffs, have evidently forgotten the white working class of which NWLeics. is actually full. They have a stronger sense of grievance with new Labour than I would have believed possible a decade ago, mainly because of the effects of what they see as uncontrolled immigration.
193 Agreed. The whole ‘he broke into my house and how I reacted is now the issue’ is a complete nonsense.
If someone broke into my house, and I had the chance to stop them - I’d go for it.
Unfortunately, unless they are allergic to cats or scared of dogs who want to wagtail them to death, I’m stumped
183 I remember one winter when I was a student in Newcastle, I had a house share in Fenham and the only heating we had was a solid fuel roomheater with back boiler. There was about 18 inches of snow, but the buses were running by the first evening. The snow stuck around for about a week, we cooked up a big pot of vegetable soup so we could have several hot meals a day, and got through about a quarter a ton of coal in the week. But - after the first day, everything seemed to run fairly smoothly.
199 You’d get away with hitting someone hard over the head with a lump of wood and/or stabbing said burglar without actually killing him
195 Oh don’t be such a grumpy old sausage
- its a bit of fun and a nice feedback from Mr Dale’s readers.
For interest, I ran a poll in the Spring asking if readers of Mr Dale or Mr Fawkes also read PB - the vast majority said no as it was too specialised/nerdy…
Clearly PB readers are more likely to turn-out
201. I don’t think you can disable someone by those means without running a significant risk of killing them.
Or maybe with practice one could - something to be added to the national curriculum perhaps
201 “stabbing said burglar without actually killing him”
If the law said you could do that, it would be really stupid. If you stab someone, you might kill them. I would suggest that if stabbing someone is reasonable in the circumstances, then it doesn’t matter if they subsequently die.
197 FWIW,even as a Labour voter,I think Brown is a f***ing awful leader,and I can’t help but think ‘It won’t be the end of civilisation as I know if/when the Tories win
201 “….or stabbing said burglar without actually killing him”
A bit tricky that one Patrick - Now let’s see, should I stick the knife in 3 inches or go the whole hog with 6 inches?
200 Where in Fenham? I went to school at Dame Allen’s and had St Basil’s as Xmas carols venue
202. Plato December 28th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
“the vast majority said no as it was too specialised/nerdy”
Interesting. I’d say the opposite: this site has more stuff of general interest if you follow politics; Guido and Dale are more specialised (and more worser).
196 - Sadly, it’ll be very hard to get rid of a DPP.
Their role is protected, from political interference so they wont be partisan when making descisions. (Yes I’m aware of the irony)
Pretty much the only way a DPP will be forced out of office, is if he is caught kerb crawling.
No Cameron is not a nice man,read Jackie Ashley in today’s Guardian.She states that Cameron is well known for being rude to his minions.Also somewhere in the media archive there is material from 2002 which shows the visceral side of Cameron’s pro hunting personality.This is even before I’ve mentioned holding Norman Lamont’s briefcase on Black Wednesday.Cameron is an invention of Frank Luntz on that fateful Newsnight focus group evening. He is unreal and toxic and bad for Britain.
201 - you sound like Starmer himself:
“You can stab him, so long as he doesn’t die.”
“So how far in can I make the knife go?”
“So long as he doesn’t die.”
“What, instantly, or later on?”
*shrugs and goes off to cup Jack Straw’s nutsack.
204 You’re right,what I suggested would be the start of a very slippery slope- what needs clarifying is ’spur of the moment’ reactions-ie if a burglar broke in now,assaulted me,and I put a 12 inch kitchen knife in him a second later,I would expect the law to be on my side,regardless of what happened to the burglar
210. ‘Toxic’ is the word of the year isn’t it?
44 “Interesting selection of topics - but it’s depressing (to me, anyway) to note the absence of privacy and/or civil liberties.”
Zero reporting on the TV. If they made a fuss about all the stasi stuff that’s been made law then the reaction would have ZNL scurrying for the exits like with the “use worry over paedophiles to get everyone on a stasi database” thing.
208. Completely agree. In spite of the creeping Tory takeover, this site is still of broader interest than Dale, and of far broader interest than Guido.
210: “No Cameron is not a nice man,read Jackie Ashley in today’s <b<Guardian. She states that Cameron is well known for being rude to his minions.”
Hilarious. I don’t even need to read the rest of your post. Remind me, is it Cameron or Brown who throws printers and phones and makes staff cry?
210. “No Cameron is not a nice man,read Jackie Ashley in today’s Guardian.She states that Cameron is well known for being rude to his minions.”
Didn’t Andrew Neil make a cryptic comment a year or two back about Cameron’s bullying reputation?
Before I am portrayed a wannabe knife-wielding maniac,its all irrelevant as there’s always a lodger in my house,and there’s a cricket bat in my hall by the front door-and a 18 inch ebony baseball bat 8 feet behind where I am now typing!
208 IIRC when I posted the poll - PB was in ‘let’s debate the relative merits of STV, FPTP…’
There were thousands of posts on this subject at the time [irrespective of the thread subject - hmm, bit like the SNP now] and frankly I did wonder why I was still visiting at that point!
198. Old Mother Hubbard December 28th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
Yes, I always think untimely deaths like the one on boxing day unleash interesting dynamics. I remember being shocked when Robin Cook died in 2005. I suppose if an MP is ill with Cancer or some other illness then it is expected but the sheer speed at which such a death occurs is a complete shock to all.
In terms of what happens after the funeral, due to the marginal nature of the seat. It is not like Glenrothers or Glasgow North East where the by-election can really be put off due to the resignation or death occuring just before a summer recess and the fact it is a safe seat. The hard work and diligence of the late MP means that the length/duration of the seat being vacant will be noticed by the electorate. In these circumstances the Labour party is going to have problems one way or the other.
202 Plato - It’s the reverse for me - two or three years ago, I used to visit Iain Dale most days, now it’s once or twice a month maximum.
I just became completely bored with all the polling and the league tables. Plus there are only a tiny fraction of the comments compared with PB.
There’s just no comparison between the two sites in my view, which is a shame since at one time Iain wrote interesting and amusing threads, but became diverted by his other TV/Radio/Publishing interests.
Is this all you lot have left? Cameron can sometimes be a bit shouty around the office… Oooooo.
And doing it with the mad hatter you currently have in No.10 is the epitome of richness.
219. Plato December 28th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
I know what you mean. Like, what’s to debate? Everyone knows STV …
Aargh. Nearly got carried away there. Sorry
“Didn’t Andrew Neil make a cryptic comment a year or two back about Cameron’s bullying reputation?”
Hmm, well that’s conclusive - link?
194 - Morus, thanks for that link. I’m a big Denver fan, absolutely gutted after the comeback in vain last night. Great game to watch, second half at least. We Broncos REALLY need the Bengals to beat the Jets, as well as other results!
I reckon the Minnesota Vikings are well worth an each way bet for the Super Bowl at 10/1 with WillHill, considering they are currently number 2 in the NFC and the Saints are starting to tank a little. I think the biggest threat comes from the Eagles, who are also 10/1. (Indeed the Saints themselves are 3/1.) The Vikes are a very impressive team, with Favre, Harvin, Rice, Shiancoe, Allen etc. Your thoughts?
221 Would be a very pale pastel blue
219. Well, the site’s improved beyond recognition since then. Now, rain or shine, it’s an unrivalled repository for the latest news, views and gossip about AGW-conspiracy-related material. I’d never look anywhere else for my daily fix.
207 That particular property was on Cedar Road, at the Two Ball Lonnen end. Above the glaziers’ and next to the chip shop. It was very convenient - we were a bit further out of town than most of our contemporaries but it was a bit nicer than the Wingrove or Arthurs Hill student ghettoes, and we were on the no 12 bus route.
After that we lived on Two Ball Lonnen itself and then I bought a place of my own in the streets between Two Ball Lonnen and Stamfordham Road.
Had to move back down south for work, otherwise I might have stayed. Now I’m in north east Hampshire.
225. Ms. Plato, with the greatest of respect, how the hell am I supposed to provide a link? It was on ‘This Week’, and if memory serves me right his guests had a sort of knowing look after he said it.
Perhaps David Cameron is a new kind of Tory, instead of eating babies, he eats his minions.
205. Patrick West Ham fan who is basically Labour but has despaired of Gordon Brown December 28th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
At family parties, they have no got to the stage where they say nobody has to mention Brown as they know I go on and on and on!
I hate Gordon Brown - Always have and always will! 
Maybe someone shoulod have given me a Gordon Brown vodoo doll for xmas!
194 - Morus, When I lived in NY I used to go to Giants Stadium once a year to see the Giants play Dallas: I remember it was always windy and miserably cold. I used to always take a radio and a hand held TV so I could get all the stats, replays and commentaries.
Enjoy the game!!
230. Black Jack December 28th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
Which party do you recommend people who should vote for if the leader’s reputation for “bad treatment of underlings” is a defining issue for them?
230 - yay, new posters I’ve never seen before all agreeing with each other that Cameron is a poo.
Gosh, you hide your multiple identities well.
222 I agree with you - I used to read Mr Dale assiduously but after he was stalked by you-know-who and brought in comment pre-moderation, it killed his blog stone dead.
Any site that mods comments [and I include the Speccy, which is really pathetic] to suit their agenda turns me right off. I made a quip that Mr Liddle could write a guest piece for PB after he insulted readers here and it was deleted. How sad is that?
Although the Telegraph has many dubious views in my opinion - they only mod out serious expletives no matter how off-message/bizarre/crazy the comments are.
If you want to see Wild West comments in action - do visit the News Blogs there, lots of amusement to be had - especially those at Will Heaven’s blog
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/
233. Martin Day December 28th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
“Maybe someone shoulod have given me a Gordon Brown vodoo doll for xmas!”
Wouldn’t they need a piece of the original to do that?!
I would guess that someone who has risen to be leader of the Conservative Party by the age of 39, has enough nous to turn the party round in 4 years, and is prime minister in waiting at 43 is sometimes going to be challenging company, especially if you work for him. Most of the successful senior managers I have met, have been. He is hardly likely to be a cuddly, fluffy kind of person.
238. You can find shit in many places………..
239. Doc George December 28th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
“throwing a phone around when you are Prime Minister with all the strains of state on your shoulders is understandable”
It so isn’t.
229 My school was off Wingrove Rd and opposite the parade of shops there. I used to catch the 64 bus home. What a small world it is
It’s always sweet to see the start of a concerted effort to plant a meme.
As my daughter said to the local Chief Inspector of Police; “I know you are high up as the toes of your shoes are shiney from kicking a*ses.” We really do need people in Government who do this.
Didn’t Gordon Brown reduce one male member of staff to tears about the 2007 election IIRC?! The member of staff left because of it!
For god’s sake, the troll can’t even hide their propensity to miss spaces after a full stop or comma.
Someone nuke it please…..
244 - I used to catch the 64 bus home. What a small world it is
- unfortunately the bus fares don’t reflect that
Welcome to Lilly Allen, Banksy and DocGeorge. I have a friend who is called “Cheryl Cole” who wishes to post here. Her comment on David Cameron is similar to you 3 “unique” individuals. She says:
“David Cameron eats new born babies”.
This has convinced me, its Gordon Brown’s Labour party all the way…
226 - Oops, didn’t even mention AP!
On topic, I don’t know where Sunny Hundal gets the idea from that Class War is a popular strategy. If it was, Labour would have won in 1983 and 1987, and be enjoying a healthy poll lead at the moment.
It might keep Labour above 200 seats, by shoring up the core vote, but that’s all that can be said for it.
What’s the difference between pop-up Labour trolls and veneral disease pustules?
At least the veneral disease pustules were pleasant getting in the first place.
248 - brilliant!
I do love a new troll - they are so entertainly obvious.
If Labour are paying these people to post on PB - ‘its’ much worse than we thought’
One of Gordon Brown’s most senior aides was reduced to tears after the Prime Minister exploded in rage, blaming him for the on-off autumn Election fiasco, it was claimed.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-500651/Brown-reduced-aide-tears-poll-fiasco.html#ixzz0b0TKjJRe
Sorry he did not quit over it! That was one of Shritt (Shitty) Verdi who is alleged to have bollocked an underling!
I’d have thought anyone who reckons they can read people will have come to the conclusion that Cameron is nowhere near as fluffy as he makes out - to me that’s a good thing though.
248. “For god’s sake, the troll can’t even hide their propensity to miss spaces after a full stop or comma.”
Well spotted.
244 I was last in Newcastle last New Year, unfortunately the place has changed with all the development they’re doing in the town centre, so I no longer feel like it was home. But I enjoyed living there, unfortunately there was one point when a contract came to an end and I couldn’t find work, so had to move back down south. To be honest, the majority of my friends had already done that already for much the same reason.
257. He obviously doesn’t agree it’s a good thing otherwise he’d draw back the veil a little. I was genuinely shocked by that 2002 article that Wibbler posted the other day, although as Tim noted perhaps Cameron has become more mature since then.
Perhaps.
256 - the funniest thing about that link is the caption under the picture saying “The embattled Prime Minister is now pinning his hopes on a fightback in the New Year” - in 2007. We really have seen everything before.
257 - I know people who have worked with Cameron. He’s a hard worker, and he’s a tough boss - he doesn’t suffer fools gladly, and he is a swearer. But he’s also very fair, and isn’t one to take anger at his mistakes out on others. He’s part cuddly, but part iron. And one thing he doesn’t do, is shout at people because he’s not very good at this - unlike the current No.10 occupant.
257. MrJones December 28th, 2009 at 5:47 pm
I actually like the *idea* that Cameron thinks Gordon Brown is a cnut! You can tell with his eyes and mouth at Pmq’s!
From my point of view with Cameron I like him because he makes you feel safe - The sort of “my dad is bigger than your dad mentality” and he will protect you from the bullies.
Cameron is an Alpha Male, if you contrast that to Gordon Brown who is basically a fat Bastard and bully no wonder Cameron wins hand over fist!
What’s the difference between pop-up Labour trolls and smallpox pustules?
Smallpox has been eradicated from the Earth.
248 - Well spotted, that man!
265 Wouldn’t it be amusing if Mike introduced comments based on IP address as he did for POTY voting
266 - no, you can’t try a new angle so soon after the other one failed.
Go away and think about it, then come back.
266 Welcome to troll land
The Raven December 28th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
261. Just noticed this about Mr Harmmen at the bottom!
Looks like the Wolverhampton MP had the right name if thats what they were going to do by putting him in the Lords! 
“Labour officials told The Mail on Sunday that Mr Brown planned moves to strengthen Labour’s links with the unions.
According to a senior aide, if the November Election had gone ahead, the party had decided to offer a peerage to Wolverhampton MP Mr Purchase, a member of the transport union.
Under the plan, if he had accepted, his Commons seat would have been offered to union leader Mr Dromey. Under Labour’s rules, if an MP steps down in the run-up to an Election, party chiefs can use special powers to ensure favoured candidates are picked.
A similar offer is said to have been made to major unions, including the GMB, Unite and the CWU whereby up to ten union officials would have been given seats.”
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-500651/Brown-reduced-aide-tears-poll-fiasco.html#ixzz0b0W5jFSI
I think Mr Dromey is going for Leyton and Wanstead now?!
267, what happened then? I think I must’ve missed that.
Also, when’re we having TOTY voting?
Mr Alexander did promise use of internet tactics that the Labour Party learnt from the US. Viral rumours fed by astroturfers and associated sockpuppets are unfortunately now a part of politics.
Need to be a bit cleverer though, should establish a persona with a degree of trust on a forum before leaping in with the attack meme, not an outbreak of previously unknown names all with same messages.
260 Sure, savage little bastards like me aren’t his target market.
@@@
237 “Any site that mods comments…”
Agree. There’s a lot of downsides to non-moderation but the extra honesty of people posting without thinking is worth it imo.
I don’t know about Dave Cameron, but it’s no secret that movie director *James* Cameron shouts at his cast and crew so much, he makes Alan Sugar look like Gandhi!
But he’s also an Oscar winner and his latest film, ‘Avatar’, is on track to take a gazillion dollars at the box office.
It’s total sh*te, though.
Any parallels to be drawn here?
250. As somebody who has made the odd comment but mainly ‘lurked’ for @18 months, I must say it is quite easy to spot these people. They make the same, inane, level of comment attempting to disrupt and not engage. Its typical of the NuLab mindset that they seem to identify everybody as a ‘big brother’ watcher who reacts on an extremely childish level.
Not so much sad as bloody pathetic.
273 - “people posting without thinking is worth it”
Err, is that what you meant to say..?
249 Dame Allen’s then I’d guess. No not very far at all. I reckon I moved into Cedar Road in July 1985, I suppose you might just have still been around then before going off to Uni (you did admit your age on a post upthread). Whereabouts did you live?
271 If you tried to vote more than once, it came back that you’ve already voted.
ChristinaD mentioned it at the time after cocking up her vote, so I tried it myself [having already voted for Mr YS] and got the same no-no reply.
Excellent move by Mr Smithson - if only it could be applied to all elections.
Tim, can you teach these trolls a lesson, even if it is about grammar.
278 - What you needed to do was vote via your laptop, personal mobile, work mobiles, and via an o2 mobile broadband dongle.
248. ukpaul December 28th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
Forensic Poster of the Year
I hate Cameron: he’s not a true Tory, he’s too soft!
I hate Cameron: he shouts at people, he’s too hard!
Er…
(*Explodes due to self-contradictory spinning*)
278, oh right.
Serves you right for trying to cheat. Naughty Plato!
279, ahem. I am only too happy to teach them about the perils of the solar death ray. Mwahahaha!
22. Gywnfa, The answer is simple, they do not have the powers to make people give evidence, that is held by westminster and they would provide zero assistance. It would be pointless without Westminster support.
283 - The great thing about Labour spin about Cameron is that
1) He is a shallow salesman, with no experience of running anything
2) Yet, when he was 26, he was running the UK economy, when Black Wednesday happened.
285 - Was for 282
283 - Yes, i nominate Morris Dancer to teach the trolls an education, and also act as test subjects for intergalactic weapons of mass desctruction.
276 Yes, for the honesty - even if it’s angry nonsense - not so much for the politics more for the people watching aspects.
So we have a hung POTY resulting in CON-LD pact.
Is this a Smithson omen for 2010?
277 I was at Dame Allen’s until 85 - I then went into the chemistry behind the conservation of the masters and their schools’ work [such as Da Vinci, M. Angelo, Vermeer, Durer etc.]
Trolls:
“Ask not for whom the enormo-haddock come; they come for thee.”
Angel December 28th, 2009 at 6:08 pm “Can a non-Tory post on this site? New here but a lot of people seem to be in attack mode over anti Cameron posts.”
Well you could try polishing a turd and say something good about Gordon Brown. Even the Labour supporters on here do not want him as their Leader.
288 - Go back to the early days of this site, when I believe Mr Fear was the only tory poster on here.
Hell, when I first discovered this site back in the summer of 2007, I was to scared to post, due the sheer number of labour supporters, who were quite happy to introduce sharia law if anyone outed themselves as a tory.
OGH has noticed the trend, when parties to well, their supporters tend to post the most.
288 Angel
Course you can, sweet Angel.
Unburden your sorrows before all.
288. Angel December 28th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
I am not a member of the Tory party and I post on here!
85. TIMB, and we in Scotland know 3 things about Americans,
Obese
Loud and obnoxious
Like invading other countries
“Andy Coulson bullying case costs NoW £800,000″
“Matt Driscoll, a sports reporter who was sacked in 2007 while on long-term sick leave for stress-related depression, was found to have suffered from a culture of bullying for which Coulson…was held responsible.”
http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/56506,people,news,andy-coulson-bullying-case-costs-news-of-the-world-800000
Cameron = Coulson
288. “Can a non-Tory post on this site?”
Naturally, just so long as you provide Plato with your identity papers first.
I just had a look at the YouTube video of Akmal Shaikh’s world peace song about rabbits, and some of the comments beneath were predictably deplorable -
“** LATEST NEWS ** LATEST NEWS ** LATEST NEWS ** LATEST NEWS ** LATEST NEWS ** LATEST NEWS **
Reprieve Lawyers have discovered that Akmal’s mental condition has worsend by 50% - he has now gone TRI-POLAR.
** LATEST NEWS ** LATEST NEWS ** LATEST NEWS ** LATEST NEWS ** LATEST NEWS ** LATEST NEWS **”
288, Mr. Submarine is a Lib Dem who is joint Poster of the Year (I voted for him myself). There’s nothing wrong with intelligent posters of any creed, but people mystically appear and open with “I am a lifelong Conservative but I respect Brown/hate Cameron/think I may vote for Nick Clegg” they sound about as convincing as a one-eyed Scottish idiot claiming he’s saved the world.
300. I am a Liberal Democrat but hate Nick Clegg!
Angel - I’m not a Tory either, I voted for Tony several times.
But Labour under Brown = disaster.
I’m voting Tory despite Cameron being an AGW numpty.
Morus @194. I certainly am. Very jealous that you’re getting to a game. On my long list of things to do when I make my future pilgrimage to the US.
Thankfully following the NFL almost entirely via the Internet is a realistic thing to do. Can’t think how people managed back in the day.
301 - You’re a Liberal Democrat?
I think I need to go lie down, with Angelina Jolie
302. “I’m not a Tory either, I voted for Tony several times.”
Link?
“Can a non-Tory post on this site?”
*I’m* not a Tory. I’ve voted Labour or LibDem many times in GEs and donated $100 to Obama’s campaign.
I’m just not going to return to power a government whose aim is to force me to pay for and carry an identity card. And I’m certainly not going to vote for my local (Labour) MP, authoritarian hypocritical trougher Joan Ryan.
305 - Glad to see you realise Plato is as important as Andrew Neil when it comes to politics in the UK.
272. “Mr Alexander did promise use of internet tactics that the Labour Party learnt from the US. Viral rumours fed by astroturfers and associated sockpuppets are unfortunately now a part of politics.
Need to be a bit cleverer though, should establish a persona with a degree of trust on a forum before leaping in with the attack meme, not an outbreak of previously unknown names all with same messages.”
It’s not too hard to perform the necessary analysis to detect such tactics. Spelling, grammar, and even the content itself can be correlated across posts and boards. So if Labour do go down such a route they had better hire some professionals. I think Labour would have to be bloody stupid to even try it.
307. Actually, perhaps what I should have demanded is a link to proof that “voting for Tony” has got anything to do with “not being a Tory”.
300 Yes. The “lifelong Tory” who is going to switch on a particular issue is almost always a fake.
Likewise I once posted on the Borehamwood Times website as a “lifelong Socialist” who had hated the Tories all my life, and once borrowed a pair of shoes to walk 5 miles to the nearest polling station to vote Labour, but would never support them again because they deselected Frank Ward.
Oh dear, looks like I’m going to have to get myself banned again:
S
Oh dear, looks like I’m going to have to get myself banned again:
S
302 - You’ve already said you’d vote for Nick Griffin haven’t you?
309 - If you really believe that, then you have more in common with Wage Slave than Stuart Dickson.
I hereby certify that the post at 305 by Mr James Kelly is proper evidence of a good joke.
Incidentally, this sudden spate of new posters inside of an hour who all hate Cameron are fascinating:
Lilly Allen
Banksy
Black Jack
Doc George
Barbour Lass
Angel
C’est magnifique, mais ce n’est pas le Tim.
316 - A Scot? With a sense of Humour? Surely I should be certify that post 316 is proper evidence of a good joke.
297 - and you didn’t even mention Finland
319 - Scots would be obese, but for the drug problem.
248
LOL
I noticed that as well.
Doc George, Lilly Allen and Blackjack all posting effectively the same thing and all making identical punctuation errors.
Methinks they are too stupid to be trolls. Goblins perhaps?
i see the politicisation of the DPP continues with this report on the BBC website.
A call by the Conservatives to make it harder for people who tackle burglars to be jailed has been rejected by the Director of Public Prosecutions.
Keir Starmer said the law “works very well” and prosecutions were brought only if “unreasonable” force was used.
What should we expect from someone who made his career exploiting the Human Rights Act to push the boundaries far beyond what most people think is sensible, moving the guilt much further onto the victim and the benefit of all doubt and all action to the perpetrator.
I have to say it is impressive to see so many famous people suddenly posting here. Lilly Allen, Banksy. Can someone get us a Hollywood actor? It would make the full creative set…
320. TSE, Don’t give up your day job.
288 - Angel - this is about the most cross-partisan site on the interweb. Set up by a Lib Dem, we get everything from former Communist Labour MPs, right the way through to old fashioned high Tories. All are welcome, but the prevailing mood tends to match the mood of the nation, so the noise is being made on the Centre Right at the moment. Make good, intelligent points - or give good betting tips - and you will be beloved, irrespective of party affiliation.
226 - Huw: I think the Vikings have been the best team in the first 10 weeks, but Favre has suffered in December. Drew Brees and the Saints also seem to have hit a psychological block.
The Eagles are my favourite dark horse for the Superbowl, and it’s not impossible that they will snatch the first round bye from the Vikings.
The AFC is far more interesting, with the 4 division champions (we won the AFC north 6-0!) set, there are seven teams competing for 2 wildcards on the final weekend. If the Houston Texans and NY Jets are allowed to beat the Patriots and Bengals, then it is likely that all 4 Wildcard Games will be a repeat of the previous week’s Regular season games.
Of the wildcard contenders in the AFC (Jets, Ravens, Steelers, Dolphins, Jaguars, Texans, Broncos), I can only see the Steelers or Ravens competing with divisional champions. If neither get through, I can see the Colts facing the Patriots/Chargers (prob the chargers) and I think the Colts win it on the passing game.
The AFC has the strongest rushing defences/offences by far (Bengals, Ravens, Steelers, Chargers) but I suspect it could be a passing team (Colts) that wins the AFC championship. The Colts for my money are best matched against the Saints - the Eagles are maybe too physical, and the Vikings have too good a balance of rushing and passing when they play well.
Could be a great Superbowl!
299 As I’m a card carrying liberatian, your comment makes no sense in respect of my politics.
324 Morus
Have you gone native?
Don’t you realise there is a Test Match being played in South Africa.
And you were my only hope for the future.
303 - one of the things I found hard in the UK was the times particularly of the late games. Also Monday Night Football was hard to find - think it was on channel 4 or somewhere at 3am and I kept forgetting to record it..
I also don’t care for the Sky host - Hallam I think. Cadle was OK though.
But NFL Sunday Ticket is fantastic - you can see any game you want. Red Zone channel is great too - they just switch to whatever game has a scoring chance, sometimes with 2 on a screen at once. Even better Red Zone has no commercial breaks, so it’s 7.5 hours of engrossing non-stop football every Sunday.
297 malcolmG
That was just as offensive as things that people have posted about Scots! You are talking about a lot of my relatives there.
Not funny, just coarse and rude.
305 The many times I’ve pointed this out here on PB - try searching for them - I stated this in my blog header under very recently.
324 How do you see the current situation in Wales? I continue to tip the Lib Dems in Newport East btw.
“The judgment singled out Coulson for making “bullying” remarks in an email to Driscoll after the first formal warning, letting him know that he thought he should have been sacked.
According to the tribunal, the bullying continued after Driscoll went on sick leave. Senior management at the paper sent Driscoll a barrage of emails, phone calls and visited his home to demand that he see a company doctor, despite Driscoll’s GP advising him to “distance” himself from the source of his stress.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/nov/23/andy-coulson-now-bullying-payout
It is shameful that the tories on this site have not been able to condemn Coulson’s bullying in the same way that Labour posters condemned McBride.
Cameron = Coulson
331 - Surely by your logic
Brown = McBride
288 - Angel. I’m a PB newcomer (relatively speaking) and it can look a little intimidating from the outside. However, if you argue well or provide a brilliant betting option you will be loved by many.
Plato. You must be the only ex Dame Allans pupil to be an active Tory!
332. TSE
Brown sacked McBride.
335 - But when the emails happened, McBride was working for Brown, whereas, Coulson did what he is alleged to have done, prior to working for Cameron.
Or don’t you believe people deserve second chances?
335 McBride resigned after two days of publicity, he wasn’t fired.
335, from the Labour Party?
335, Gabble,
Has McBride been sacked from his next job? Will you be agitating for that to occur?
If not, why not?
337 - Indeed, remember, Andrew Porter tried to spike the story on behalf of Downing street.
So Brown was trying actively to keep McBride in his job.
334 Roger - since I haven’t voted Tory since erm I can’t recall a time, your analysis seems rather odd.
For the record - I voted for Paddy when Major was PM, Labour when Tony was PM and at other times when it seemed to make more protest vote sense - UKIP and Natural Law.
I voted Tory when John Moore before he became SoS for the DHSS…
331 - And remember Gabble, as you once said,
“You shouldn’t believe everything you read in the papers”
High quality stuff on the site this evening - a rash of astroturfers plus the ignorance tag-team of Messrs Kelly and MalcomG.
Ah well back to my house guests…
336. TSE: “Or don’t you believe people deserve second chances?”
If people accept their misdeeds and apologise, they may deserve a second chance.
Has Coulson done either of these?
No.
Do I get the award for the purveyor of old news?
341 - Were you into the yogic flying?
324. The Colts will also have home advantage all through the playoffs; so they’ve really got no excuse not to make it to the Superbowl. The Chargers have been based far more around the pass this season, with Tomlinson declining, and it’s worked well for them. I don’t think the Patriots would beat either team.
327. Yeah, I don’t tend to bother with the late game on Channel 5 on a Sunday, can’t be bothered to stay up. But I often find a *cough* online stream *cough* of NFL Red Zone on a Sunday evening, or an individual game if there’s one I particularly want to see.
331. Frankly, if Cameron has the same robust approach to sickness benefit claims for “stress related depression” as Coulson seems to have (judging purely on the contents of your post) I think he is even more suited to govern the country than I did before.
Is that enough of a condemnation? Best I could manage.
“McBride’s resignation statement in full”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7995107.stm
326 - Never fear - I will be wathcing the NFL on TV, but listening to the dulcet tones of Test Match Special on the Radio…!!
346 It was the most hilarious PPB ever - such a shame that it was never preserved for posterity
PS Many thanks for the link re Blackadder
Coulson is reportedly responsible for Chris Graylings promotion.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
350 - Is it me, or has TMS lost some of it’s magic?
347 - Which is your team Andrew? You did tell me but I’ve forgotten (probably with the shock of winning 2 games in December).
352 - Conspiracy theory whackjob
351 - I remember seeing that PPB and being mesmerised.
About 6yrs later, i met a girl, who introduced me to the joys of yogic flying.
354. Baltimore Ravens.
350
Indeed Morus, TMS is in truth worth the license fee alone…… but don’t tell the Beeb that.
“Maybe someone shoulod have given me a Gordon Brown vodoo doll for xmas!”
Destined to be Chrstmas 2010 #1 ‘must have’ gift
324, Morus “Could be a great Superbowl!”
Don’t count on it, usually the game is a disappointment. The real action is with the halftime show and TV commercials.
BTW, check out this link on details of the massive wetlands degredation that is the modern Meadowlands:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giants_Stadium
My advice is to bring your electric socks or at very least a good blanket. Also get to Meadowlands early enough to partake in the tailgating. Reckon that a “real” football-loving Limey is sure to get a great receptions.
Also recommend that you contact Stars & Stripes, perhaps arrainged to meet pre- or post-game for some hot cocoa and/or todddy . . . or perhaps even tottie if yer up fer it!
I can’t remember a single tory on this site standing up and saying that Coulson’s bullying, of a man on sick leave due to stress-related depression, was wrong and meant that, unless he showed some contrition, he was unsuitable for a top job within their party. I apologise to any tories who did.
I think it demonstrates the cowardly nature of the tory group that regularly post on here. They take their lead from Cameron in that they’re quick to attack any tories they deem dispensable but close ranks around tories closer to the centre, regardless of how revolting the behaviour of those tories may have been.
Gabble…most futile poster of the year?
361 - Ah well, at least Coulson or Cameron have never lied when taking this country to war. Apologise for that first.
How do you sleep with thousands of dead Iraqis on yours and Blair’s soul? (assuming warmongers have souls)
333 - The best way to deal with people who shout down new posters is to take some money off them in bets.
355 - As I’ve pointed out before the alternative theory, that Grayling was promoted on ability grounds, has been disproven.
Morus, you protest a wee bit too much re: the “fair and balanced” nature of PB.
True, there is a plethora of perspectives. BUT the dominant viewpoint has always been Tory, Tory, Tory.
353 TSE - TMS( a relation of yours ?) has lost all of its ‘magic’.
Time was when you would pray for rain, just to listen to Johnners and Fred attempting to solve The Times crossword.
I hate all that nostalgia bollocks, but in this case it does seem entirely justified.
336. I doubt Brown would have considered employing someone with the background of Coulson. Not because he isn’t forgiving but because he’s a Presbyterian Scot.
Plato. I wasn’t particularly commenting on you but on Dame Allans where one of my very good friends went.
The TMS magic started to fade when they started to stuff it full of five live rentagob types IMO.
360 - the first game played at Giants Stadium resulted in the Giants losing to the Cowboys. (just thought I’d mention it)
364 tim
An alternative tactic for a new poster might be to make a half-serious smear then laugh ostentatiously at one’s own joke.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
See! Easy!
365
not sure about that… AFAICRin the early days of PB, Conservative posters were as rare as hens teeth.
URW. http://www.nimisis.com/posts/brian_johnstons_legover_commentary
366 - For years, i used to watch the cricket on tv, with the sound down, and TMS providing the commentary. No longer these days.
Is the sudden eruption of apparent Labour trolls on this site today another aspect of the Labour catching-up-with-the-Tories-on-the-interweb-thingy strategy that saw two new Labour websites launched yesterday?
I hope that PB-ers simply ignore them. Giving them attention disrupts the normal pattern of things here and is just what they’re seeking to do.
215
‘creeping Tory takeover’ of PB.com?
You’ll be saying that about the electorate and the government soon.
I think it may be some sort of anti-Labour conspiracy.
369. Unlike the first regular season game at the new Cowboys stadium. Just thought I’d mention it
361. Gabble: save the synthetic moral indignation for someone who cares. I don’t like Coulson or anyone else connected in any way with the NOTW. On the other hand writing to someone asking them to see the company doctor to substantiate a claim for sick leave seems to me like reasonable behaviour. My guess is that whatever he did was authorised or recommended by the paper’s legal advisers and they got it wrong. If this is the best attack you can manage this evening give yourself some time off.
361 Gabble - Firstly, the allegations of ‘bullying’ by Coulson are not well substantiated; they are merely the finding of an employment tribunal, which as you will know doesn’t mean very much; they are highly biased against employers. In particular, Coulson was not able to defend himself. In any case, the prime ‘evidence’ of the so-called bullying was an e-mail, which actually looks pretty innocuous. It is a storm in a teacup (other than the ludicrously high lottery-style payout, but that is sadly a curse which the country is saddled with in this sort of case).
If you can’t see the distinction between this case, and McBride plotting to disseminate disgusting lies against opposition politician’s wives, for the political advantage of the Labour Party, then your moral compass is distinctly rusty.
In any case, despite your repeated posting of this nonsense, it won’t fly. It’s a non-story. No one is interested; it’s an even less effective line than the Latvian homophobes.
316. AndrewG. You overlooked Angharad Huws at 216. That’s 7 in one hour on a slow bank holiday. No doubt they’re just being road-tested for the great viral campaign to come. After all, it worked for Obama so why won’t it work for Brown? (Don’t all rush at once.)
328. Oldnat , it was exactly as intended, to show TIMB that posting such things is not nice, unfortunately sometimes the only way to deal with these type of people is to respond in kind in the hope that they will see the error of their ways, I doubt it in his case, and certainly was not my personal opinion. However it shows how easy it is to be insulting. To you I apologise profusely for using such a crude method to get my point across. Unfortunately it was wasted on him.
361 Certainly not 5 years ago.
365 Since the allegations against Coulson relate to a time prior to his current employment, your argument is irrelevant.
373
You can’t do it now unless you spend a while synchronising the pictures and the sound. Its a pain.
Anyways I was pleased for Ian Bell as Boycott was giving him some stick today.
343. Runnymede, that you trying to kid on you have friends.
379 - From a personal position, earlier on this year, we paid out 30grand to an employee who sued us, for unfair dismisal.
We had a strong defence, however our legal team and insurers told us, it would be easier to pay out 30grand, rather than spend a 100grand in defending the case (and possibly losing)
Now, in Gabble’s eyes, i’m an evil tory.
TimB and others with first-hand experience, how good IS the tailgating at Giant’s Stadium?
AND will you be sorry when they tear the place down next year?
382 - You can now, if you listen via a DAB radio and on sky sports, rather than Sky sports HD.
316 380
don’t forget me,. I (hate)prefer to say I have no respect for DC…..
and will be voting for Gordon at the general election.
381 malcolmG
You were being over subtle for me! Nae probs.
384 TSE
Can you estimate the cost-benefit to pb.com of sacking Gabble?
The ratios might be more compelling.
386 Thanks for that. I’ll try it…
388. Oldnat, very glad you accepted my apology. One of the select few people on here whose opinion matters to me.
389 - The benefit to the tory party from the likes of Gabble is immense.
Everytime I get frustrated at Dave, I remember the likes of Tim and Gabble, and reminds me to vote Tory, and persuade my friends to do the same.
My opinion isn’t worth much. And sometimes less than zero, as PtP can attest!
BUT in my humble opinion, the best Superbowl or other pro game cannot compare to a good college football game. Of which the best tend to be classic rivalries, for example the annual Apple Cup game between University of WA (”U’dub) and WA State University (”Wazzu”). Though not this year, because both teams are pretty awful!
SSI - it goes in phases: before the Tory leads in the polls, it was a well-known fact that the only Tory prepared to admit to his leanings was the great Sean Fear.
If Cameron wins, I would be astonished if it didn’t swing back again.
But my point more generally is that, whilst there is always a voice in the ascendancy, all view points are welcome here, if they are intelligently expressed. I can’t think of another website that gets this broad range of political opinion engaging in actual conversation. It’s not a neutral sphere, but it’s not institutionally partisan either.
370 - So the description of Grayling as “Coulsons protege” is a smear?
Against which one though, the bully or the buffoon?
“Everytime I get frustrated at Dave, I remember the likes of Tim and Gabble, and reminds me to vote Tory, and persuade my friends to do the same.”
Yep!
I’ve just deleted a large number of posts from a serial multi-name poster so the numbering might be odd.
390 - Not the argentinian sausage merchant is it?
Channel 4 News just reported that Iris Robinson is retiring from politics to battle mental illness.
387 Morus see 323.
Daily Mirror Tries to Entrap Bellydancing Tory PPC
http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2009/12/daily-mirror-tries-to-entrap.html
This relates to the ex-LibDem now Tory PPC for Stoke-on-Trent Central…
malcolmG
Flattery will get you everywhere.
387 - “the benefit to the tory party from the likes of Gabble is immense.
Everytime I get frustrated at Dave, I remember the likes of Tim and Gabble, and reminds me to vote Tory, and persuade my friends to do the same.”
Yes, amusing isn’t it.
Heh, clearly I work for a big firm.
Britain’s leading companies are devising pay schemes that enable top executives to escape the new 50p rate of income tax for high earners that takes effect in April, the Guardian has learned.
Some of the biggest companies in the country are constructing complex pay schemes that risk infuriating government ministers, who are determined to crack down on tax avoidance. Some of these schemes are “nakedly” intended to allow senior boardroom bosses to pay a tax rate of 18% instead of the 50% top rate, according to one industry expert.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/dec/28/executive-pay
392 - serious depresion being the illness.
BREAKING: Another soldier dies in Afghanistan
I see Con Home has picked up on the Jacob Rees Mogg, the Candidate with the Nanny, story.
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/goldlist/2009/12/its-probably-best-to-use-real-local-people-in-campaign-literature.html
On topic. Devil’s Kitchen, picks up Mr Hundal themes.
Note, this link, is not suitable for those easily offended
http://www.devilskitchen.me.uk/2009/12/long-live-war.html
387, Morus - your fundamental point is very true. Warts, warthogs and all, PB is the best dammmn political blog on the planet.
For one thing, it’s extremely wide-ranging but the having a specific raison d’etre (political betting) gives it a unique and valuable (and for some even profitable) focus.
399 tim
Roger Curtis posts a relevant comment:
“I’m sorry, I don’t buy this. Sounds like yet more anti-Conservative lies and propaganda from the Daily Mail - edited by Paul Dacre, a man who has publicly praised Gordon Brown’s “moral integrity”.
If this is a Photoshop job by the Mail to slur Rees-Mogg’s good name I hope he takes them to the cleaners in the libel courts.”
Glad to sanity prevail.
394. SthLondon Nick December 28th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
I think that is terrible.
She could be a model who wares no clothes for all for i care! Who cares. So what! The Daily Mirror must be really worried if they are trying to smear a Tory candidate in what should be the 116th Safest Labour seat according to electoral calcuses ordered seats! I think the Mirror is stuck in a time warp. They used to complain about tories being non representative and now they embrace all culture. Anyway the Daily Mirror try making out someone goes further than belly dancing - utterly pathetic. I really dont like the Daily Mirror it is a scum bag paper!
398 - I wish her well. Though I hope she hasnt been turning to the psychiatrist in her office who tries to cure homosexuality for treatment. The DUP is facing some challenges over the next few months.
210 No Cameron is not a nice man,read Jackie Ashley in today’s Guardian.
Three words that make the story a waste of time and most likely fabicated *Guardian” & “Jackie Ashley”.
Because of their constant protection of Labour she and her husband are as responsible as Brown is for the mess we are in so any credibility she had and the rag she writes for is long gone.
Oh dear
http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2009/12/daily-mirror-tries-to-entrap.html
402 - The Mail has nicked the story from a blog and/or Private Eye I think.
If they were going to photoshop a scene from Jacobs life I’d suggest taking his nanny and in his Bentley for a first time fish & chip shop while canvassing in Fife would be excellent source material.
Or I’d quite like to see this scene renacted.
On one magnificent occasion two summers ago, both maid and nanny were to be found tending to their charge in the bucolic glory of Glyndebourne, where they took turns holding an open book over Rees-Mogg’s thin and pale neck to prevent it getting burned as he entertained a party of guests to a picnic.
373 - Malcolm, if you are referring to my post #85, it was a bit tongue in cheek I admit, but is pretty much true. That is the way most Americans see Scotland.
If you read my posts you will know that I never descend to personal attacks or insult people, which is fortunate because you seem to have managed to do both to me in a single post.
My wife is a Scot, so I have no reason to speak ill of the place, which I know well.
Quite how you would describe my post as ‘not nice’, and put me as ‘these type of people’, claim it is ‘insulting’ etc, try to make me see ‘the error of my ways’ and generally carry on like that is rather odd.
If you took offence, that is unfortunate because none was intended.
394 You are ahead of me!
400. First time I’ve looked at ‘Devils Kitchen’. What a horrible and bigoted site
406 - the Tories have a candidate who is a belly dancer? Add another reason to vote Tory to the ever increasing list.
229 Mr Kelly a perfect smear and may I give you 10 out of 10 for the following which is straight out of the NuLabour manual
“if memory serves me right his guests had a sort of knowing look after he said it”
Hhahahahahah
Roger,
You’re too kind. Now, would you care to substantiate the “bigoted” point…?
DK
405 – Agent 99, Jackie Ashley has a post @CIF today, won’t bore you with the guff she spouts but the most recommended (by a factor of 4:1) is pertinent to your post.
“Jackie Ashley. Polly Toynbee. Start doing your jobs as journalists and stop being cheerleaders for New Labour.
‘There is no alternative’ (where have I heard that before?) and ‘Hold your nose because the other lot would be worse’ repeated 52 times a year does not constitute analysis or speaking truth to power.
As for hubby Marr, the least said the better.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/dec/27/gordon-barack-new-year-resolutions
410 - Clearly you’ve never visited stormfront.
402, SOL - WTF? Is there any doubt at all that the young foggie actually did produce the bumpf in question?
378 - SSI when I used to go regularly to Giants Stadium (this is almost 20 years ago) the tailgating was fantastic. I would try to arrive about 3 hours before the game.
For soccer fans I should explain that fans of both teams intermingle and cook up together. You can just wander round from one bbq to the next. I used to take beer down and barter it for the food.
In answer to your other question, No I will not be sorry when it goes. I felt the same way about Shea Stadium. It was awful, even when I saw the Beatles there in the mid 60s.
Once a stadium gets to be over 30-35 years old, it’s time to tear it down and put up a new one.
408. Tim, fair enough , it came across badly and highlighting the Americans ignorance of the outside world was maybe not what you intended. People still need to think for a moment or two before writing such flippant posts however, far too much of it on here as it is without Americans joining in. I know most of it is down to ignorance but some is meant to be nasty and as such I will comment wherever I see it.
399 Yes tim, Jacob Rees-Mogg is a real game changer at the next election. Sheesh.
Personally, I think you should stick with your whackjob conspiracy theory about Grayling - but watch out for the News International lizard people. They’re behind you…
411. The Raven December 28th, 2009 at 7:35 pm
The interesting thing is that in such a Safe Labour seat Labour must be really worried about about a white working class defection to the BNP or even just a sit on the hands. Stoke on Trent central lets remember was a “Good” result for the BNP in 2009 Euro - Elections. I am puzzled by Labours attack on her via the proxy attack vehicle the Daily Mirror. Maybe Labour are trying to highlight the foriegn name and origins of the Tory candidate to scare the BNP inclined voters back? I could see the potential issue been the sort that could tip the small c (Conservative) type of white working class voter back to Labour from the BNP.
Either that or Labour are worried, very worried. It could well be the next election sees a voter stike by normal Labour voters that make the seat as vilnerable as some of the marginals. I think the Tories are doing really well on the regional poll splits and Stoke on trent has usually had a good Tory vote even in dire years - the fact that this lady defected from the Lib Dems and Stoke-on-Trent central has quite a few students in it may make this seat open to tactical voting against Labour and a lethal split between Labour and BNP that enables an unpredicted Tory gain.
415 SSI
No doubt at all though I suspect he got his nanny to hold the camera.
415 The Mail have lifted the Rees Mogg story from an edition of Private Eye published in the last month or so. Must be a slow news day at Dacre Towers.
416, TB - Thanks for that! For all you non-USers out there, should further explain that the term “tailgating” is a reference to the back tailgate of a pickup truck, which when folded down can be used as an impromptu buffet.
I watched (on TV) when they imploded the old Kingdome here in Seattle. It was sad to see this landmark go, but it was a dump inside and out. Though I opposed (and still do) the misappropriation of public funds for private gain, it’s a fact that the baseball stadium that replaced the Kingdome is a true gem; the new football(and soccer!) stadium next door is ok, but not spectacular like Safeco Field (aka Taxpayers Park).
417 People still need to think for a moment or two before writing such flippant posts however, far too much of it on here as it is without Americans joining in
I’m as British as you are - I just don’t happen to live there. Hope that’s OK
413.Unusual article from Jackie A. .There is a genuine smear in there against Cameron-not the synthetic stuff of PB.Com-when she refers to his ill tratment of minions. Matthew Parris is the past master of that sort of stuff but it’s no more attractive when done by Ashley.
414. No!
422 - For those who don’t know, people take their bbqs to the parking lot, and set up. You swap with the next bbq over and so on. It’s great. You mingle with opposing fans and it’s great fun. Maybe it’s just me but it’s just not the same at a domed stadium.
Like you, I’m not a fan of taxpayer funded stadiums.
Cowboys Stadium was built by Jerry, who put up over a billion of the $1.2 billion.
Jesus,just had a peek at stormfront-the building the site operates from must have ‘Arbeit macht frei’ outside
413 - Well I don’t think you’re horrible or bigoted.
You should get worried, if Roger starts agreeing with you.
424 – “There is a genuine smear in there against Cameron-not the synthetic stuff”
I agree Roger, I also noted it was re-iterated by today’s visiting troll and James Kelly, seems to be a concerted effort by some and a new low point on PB imho.
420, SOL - you’re probably right, this guy is REALLY in to making his henchpeople multi-task!
Speaking of staged photos, of course this is a tactic of longstanding. BUT also one that is way past it’s shelf life. Because it’s just too risky these days.
Instead, competent campaigns now put some thought and effort into staging “genuine” photos (or “staging” genuine if you prefer!) That is, if you take a picture of the candidate talking with a “constituent” in the street, then you make sure that they really ARE a local resident. Even if they are on the payroll! But of course better to find someone NOT on the payroll.
Young R-M seems like a decent sort, and I kinda hope he makes it into the House just for the entertainment value. BUT he certainly gives the impression of someone who was dropped on his head by nanny at an early age. Say 19.
422 - I had tickets for the Thanksgiving game at Cowboys Stadium, but I am not prepared to pay one red cent to watch the Oakland Raiders, so let them go.
I’m off for a visit to Jerry world in the Spring. Everyone I know who’s seen it thinks it’s incredible.
391. malcolmG:One of the select few people on here whose opinion matters to me.
In other words, a fellow SNPer.
423 SSI How will the Healthcare Bill affect Obama’s standing in his party if it passes? It is the Senate Bill or nothing despite what Dean says. Will it mean greater freedom on other matters for him.
404. Could make Strangford competitive again. This will help to free the DUP from the “Swish Family Robinson” taunt which hurt them bad in the Euros.
I take no pleasure in her condition but as a politician she is no loss at all.
434 - Is she the one, that makes Robert Mugabe’s views on homosexuals look respectable?
417.
“Once a stadium gets to be over 30-35 years old, it’s time to tear it down and put up a new one.”
Except Fenway, of course. It gets better every year (for that authentic nineteenth-century experience).
I have a lot of anecdotal evidence to adduce to pb, after my Christmas forays amongst hoi polloi, as to the state of opinion Out There.
But these submissions will have to wait until I can be arsed to write a long serious post, which may never happen again.
For now I’d just like to say that the Class War stuff is utterly disastrous for Labour, and the various Ministers who are said to be freaked by it (Mandy et al) are right to be worried.
Basically, as I now see it, Labour’s position is: Yes we have f*cked up the country, Yes we are useless, No we don’t have any idea how to fix things, No we have no good reasons for you to vote for us, however you should still vote for us… Because… Well, Because We Still Hate Rich People.
Vote Labour, Vote Hatred!
Given that at least 70% of the country is either quite well off or at least aspires to be doing OK financially, then Labour are reducing themselves to the 30% of people who have no hope or ambition, and who are immiserated in bitterness and envy.
And most of them don’t vote.
Please carry on, Gordon.
421 - I wonder which book the Nanny and the Maid used to shield Jacobs neck from the sun.
Although economising on sun screen products in such a fashion is straight out of Kirsties Homemade Picnics.
436 And Upton Park,home of my beloved Hammers!
377. Screaming Eagles December 28th, 2009 at 7:02 pm: Paying £30K to avoid £100K…
In my experience it’s always worth calling the lawyers’ bluff and fighting every court case & tribunal. I particularly enjoy litigating employment tribunal cases in person as the employer. The judge tends to listen more carefully. Instructing the solicitor to go for an ‘absolute discharge’ rather than a compromise in the Magistrate’s Court is always worth it.
[For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not an habitual criminal - when you run lorries, you tend to get a court case every 18 months or so for 'permitting' a lost wheel or insecure load etc]
In one County Court case several years ago, where I was chasing a debt of £2.5K, I was about to start when the Judge tackled the other party… “Why haven’t you paid this man’s bill!”
If we all just ‘take the [cover my arse] lawyers advice’, no wonder we’re in the litigation disaster zone. When you’re in the right, you should go to court to prove it….
It’s a lesson I learned from an early girlfriend. She was prosecuted for dangerous driving. She admitted it to reduce the fine but the Magistrate asked whether she felt she /really/ was driving dangerously. She said ‘No’ and the case was immediately dismissed.
Giving-in isn’t justice.
439 - Surely you mean the Boleyn Ground?
News Flash - President Obama now making televised statement re: Iran.
439. Patrick Hammer.
Bloody let-down your boys were today
434 Competitive between the DUP and whom. The UUP or Allister?
On topic, I’ve always been sceptical about the Mori issues poll. Just because someone doesn’t name something as important to them when not prompted doesn’t mean they won’t respond to it when it’s forced down their throat.
441 I stand corrected,sir! Hope your missus is still doing fine re the pregnancy!
442 SSI see 433.
413. Devil’s Kitchen. It’s hard to know where to start. Your first sentence:
‘The author is, inevitably, that fucking unpleasant little arse, Sunny Hundal. Well, Sunny, here’s a proposition for you…’
You then go on to insult Sunny Hundal’s (whoever he may be) ethnic origins.
Is that enough?
446 - Thank you, she’s doing fine, she’s got into this happy groove, where we both agree, everything is my fault.
Works wonders.
436 - I was talking in terms of football - baseball is entirely different. It’s a game where tradition is very much a part. It’s also the only game I know where there is no defined size of the field of play. Mound to plate is fixed, but there is no defined size for the outfield.
Baseball is also in long term and possibly irreversible decline, for several reasons
443 Ah well,Spurs look good for a top 5 spot so I was’nt too shocked-there ARE plenty of takable points twixt now and late Feb if you have a shufty at West Ham’s next 6-8 games!
Totally OT. Now is the time to watch goings on in Iran. The opposition in its public form have clearly geared up for a new round.
It has a greater chance this time of posing a serious threat to the state.
448 I won’t even enquire about the cravings
452 - Hers or mine?
438 tim
I fear you are trying to break a butterfly upon a wheel.
Bunnco, lawyers love clients like you. Peter Carter-Ruck, the libel lawyer, used to say something along the lines of: “I run my practice off clients who take my advice and don’t sue, and my Rolls-Royce off my clients who don’t take my advice and do sue”. So far you have always won, but it only takes one bad defeat to wipe all those wins out.
423, punter - The question re: health care bill isn’t how it will affect Obama’s standing in the Democratic Party (which is solid despite leftie angst). But rather how it will affect the electorate at large.
My own personal view is that it will be a plus. And that critics from both left but esp. right are helpful to him in the long run. But time will tell.
453 Oh gawd -good luck mate!
Weather warning for the whole of Scotland tonight. Its already -10 and trying to snow here tonight! Brrr
440 - It’s one of those cases, which would have been poor little pregnant solicitor made redundant by evil firm, we would have no sympathy.
We just decided to pay, because we couldnt live with the sheer buggeration factor of the case.
455. antifrank December 28th, 2009 at 8:15 pm
Ahhhh. But when you know you’re wrong, admit it quickly and pay-up. Only fight the battles you can win. And that’s a slogan that applies equally to litigation as well as politics.
440 - “Giving-in isn’t justice”
As a solicitor, i’d like to remind you all, that the Law and Justice aren’t the same.
424 Tim B
“I’m as British as you are”. So you’re not a Brit at all?
As an aside, the INVESCO Field at Mile High has to be by far the most magnificent arena in the NFL (not that I’ve been there). Obama accepted the Dem nomination there.
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/north_america/united_states/colorado/denver_invesco.shtml
(Great website, too, by the way.)
461. Copyright Lord Denning
438 tim - the repetition of the same two episodes is getting boring. Honestly if you think the Nanny story is damaging then you are deluded, the damaging stuff is the use of a model and the rip off of the story.
Nanny adds colour and human interest, there is an overtone of a lost boy whose parents didn’t have time for him as a child, it fits with a name like Jacob Rees Mogg.
Using someonelse’s work and faking photos is real, it is damaging. JRM should stop trying to cut corners and make the effort.
451 Yokel. The key is how will the higher echelons of the clergy fall. Rasfanjani sees the populist extremist islamicism of Ahmedinijad as a threat to Islam, in that he is a threat to the Iranian economy. In his view, if an Islamic state with oil wealth is seen to fail on the economy and jobs, it will redound badly on Islam and hence on Islam’s/the theocracy’s hold on the state. As I understand it, this is probably the majority view in the old guard elite of the religious establishment. However, the young turks in Ahmedinijad’s camp control the revolutionary guard, the intelligence and the security apparatus, not to mention the irregular thugs. So, unless the ‘realist’ camp in the theocracy is willing to stand up publicly and call out Ahmedinijad and the security apparatus as immoral and contrary to the spirit of Islam (not entirely out of the question), I don’t see the street protests succeeding in the short term.
In the longer term, however, the drip drip drip of dissent and repression can only serve to further polarize the country and radicalise both camps, raising the prospects of greater instability and violence.
Glad I’m not Iranian.
464 - That’s the chap
434. Yep believes gays can be cured by psychiatric counselling! Was also known for her taunting of Tory MP’s after the 42 days vote.
444. It will depend on who TUV could field. Strangford is commuter belt and if it was in GB would be a classic Con/Lab marginal. I think the turnout in 2005 was only 52% so there’s a lot of potential votes to be gained. If the UUP/Cons can get a credible candidate and TUV eats into the DUP core vote then the CU’s could gain the seat.
449 Same is true of cricket I think.
451, Yokel - yes, yes, yes.
There was an amazing photo in today’s Seattle Times, of a group of demonstrators chasing, kicking and otherwise getting the better of some riot cops.
Has the worm truly begun to turn?
468 - I’ve never understand the obsession that hetrosexual (and or religious) people have with that two consenting adults get upto in their bedroom.
469. I mean about the size of the field not being fixed. Though “long term and possibly irreversible decline” may also be true, at least of proper cricket (multi-day, white clothes).
465. I thought it was Lord Birkett
471. Only two consenting adults? Marriage has changed you.
433- An unsolicited opinion for you…
Obama will clearly have greater freedom of movement, once the albatross of healthcare reform is off his neck. However, that only raises the stakes as everyone watches to see what his next moves will be. And an even bigger question is whether he will start to take greater control of matters himself or if he will continue to hide behind Pelosi and Reid’s aprons, letting them do most of the work while he calculates and deflects.
Of course there will be something labeled as a “jobs” bill and apparently there will be much talk about the massive spending that ranks so high these days in polls of what people are worried about. However, how you go from that to actual, concrete legislation to address these concerns is very much up in the air. Obama is almost in a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don’t position as far as his initiatives are concerned, until there is real, tangible improvement in peoples’ lives and in their sense of security and well-being. A real sense of success won’t come until unemployment starts retreating under 10%.
But given the now clearly established pattern of Obama acting as the defensive liberal who leaves Congress to do as much of the dirty work as possible to (theoretically) spare himself the political consequences, one is left to wonder what Pelosi and Reid will cook up not only in terms of setting the agenda but also in terms of the actual legislation that will emerge. Immigration reform? Gays in the military? Environmental legislation? Tax hikes? It’s all hanging out there, waiting to see which faction will move the ball first.
462 - renewed my British passport this year - cost over 3 times what renewing my US one cost.
479 refers to 464
474 - It has, it really has.
470 Surely though Obama will have to make tough calls in the future and the support of his party will be stronger or weaker because of the Bill? BTW How do you see Dean’s views. What did he expect Obama to get passed.
470- Hey SSI, I see that the guy you described as a leftie loon (more or less) won the mayoral race in Seattle. You had mentioned how crazy he was, in part, in terms of his position on a major highway project in Seattle. What do you think of him now that he has won?
455 antifrank
On the only occasion I have used the services of Carter Ruck I was advised not to seek an injunction but to rely upon the fear inspired by the firm’s letterhead.
It worked but at a cost sufficient to fund a fleet of Rolls Royces.
478 Punter. Dean’s comments should be seen in the context not of them reflecting necessarily what he thinks, but of all things in Congress being a single, continuous negotiation with all other parties. Thus Dean has to keep up pressure on Obama not to drift too far to the centre. And thus Dean cannot appear too happy with Obama or heap too much praise on him.
476 Tim B
The point of my post was …. Oh, never mind. You wouldn’t understand.
I am off to drink some beer and watch some films!
Tell me to bugg€r off if i come on here drunk! Its not funny even though I have an impish grin on my face no doubt whilst doing it!
I write utter b0ll0cks when i have been drinking - It is as though i have turned into Coldstone or Mark Senior! 
483 - Have fun. Stick “DONT POST WHILE DRUNK” on a post-it and put that on your screen
483 Martin Day
“I write utter b0ll0cks when i have been drinking”. How do you rate your performance when sober?
478, P - as S&S rightly points out, ain’t nothing BUT tough calls for Barrack Obama.
My own guess is that as S&S says he’ll focus on jobs. Good news for him here may be the fact that huge amount of fedstim$ is yet unspent but in pipeline.
As for congressional Dems, don’t think I agree with S&S that they will seek to push the envelope. Yes, there will be some efforts by those on same wavelength as Dean. BUT the looming 2010 elections are an argument against overreaching.
Note that Reid’s own seat is up for grabs and too close to call (though he will be helped if he wins on health care, also perhaps by spectacular self-destruction of NV’s GOP governor). As for Pelosi, think she still wants to be Speaker when the dust settles at the end of the year.
Seth O. Logue, sounds like it was worth it for you! in law, as in most things in life, there is a reasonably high correlation between price and quality.
481- Don’t overestimate Dean’s self-control, however (consider his explosive outburst that arguably cost him the Democratic nomination in 2004). His initial attack on Obama was harsh and very Dean-like. It was only after some grownups cooled him off that he said yes, after all, he WOULD support Obama in 2012. The left is pissed off. They should be pissed off. If my party had finally obtained massive majorities and total control of Washington and then STILL could not deliver on its biggest agenda item, I would be furious too.
TimB - they’re Scots Nats who don’t consider themselves British
“The dickhead who is now the Conservative party director of communications is a bully - and that’s official.”
http://madamearcati.blogspot.com/2008/12/andy-coulson-does-david-cameron-now.html
Obvious to all except Cameron and his cowardly supporters, including on this site.
Even the POTY, Richard Nabavi, attempts to apologise for it, not with facts, of course, but with baseless prejudice. On any objective site, he would have been seen for the lickspittle partisan he undoubtedly is - or maybe that’s what won it for him?
491 - Thanks for the tip, but I was already aware of their political ‘inclinations’.
492 - Gabbs, you been quiet on the Daily Mirror story linked to above.
Why could that be I wonder?
That’s odd. I wrote a reply to Devil’s kitchen where I simply quoted their article in answer to post 413. It appeared and has now disappeared. Whoever is moderating this site seems to agree with me that the site is ‘horrible and bigoted’. Seems you’re outvoted Eagle!
“Senior prosecutor rejects Tory demands over self-defence laws”
“David Cameron was on a collision course with the Director of Public Prosecutions last night after the country’s most senior prosecutor rejected Tory demands for householders who confront burglars to be given greater legal protection.
Keir Starmer argued that the current guidelines, which permit people to use “reasonable force” to protect their property, “worked very well”. His comments are bound to lead to tensions with a Conservative government if David Cameron wins next year’s general election.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/senior-prosecutor-rejects-tory-demands-over-selfdefence-laws-1852047.html
492
Gabble
Repeating stuff ad nauseam adds nothing to the debate. We heard you the first, second, third, fourth, fifth.”””””””
479, S&S - How dare you so malignly mischaracterise my previous commentary on our distinguished mayor elect! Le roi c’est mort - vive le roi!!!
So far my views re: our new Mayor-elect of Seattle, Mike McGinn are guardedly positive. First, because his very victory give me pause to consider that I’ve underestimated him?
Also so far he is making (I think) the right opening moves, in particular reasonable personnel decisions. For example, has hired young up-and-comer who worked for Vulcan (Paul Allen’s own personal borg) BUT who is well-respected by anti-Vulcanistas.
He’s hired his campaign field director (also wife of his main consultant) Julie McCoy to be chief of staff. She did a GREAT job for him in the primary and election, and is a real tough cookie. Her weakness is that she’s not au courrant with the curious folkways of Seattle municipal administration, but some of the other members of the team definitely are.
The real test will be how Mayor McGinn handles the Amazing Shrinking City Budget.
490 - if as expected the Dems suffer some losses in the mid-terms, it could have a chastening effect on their desire to push the envelope.
Then it will be interesting to see what else he pulls out of the hat.
492 - Gabble, if we’re talking about d1ckheads and politics
Tony Blair has been called “a complete dickhead” by a leading Spanish politician live on television. The comment was made by Jose Bono, one of the three most powerful figures in the Socialist Party.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/1451863/Spanish-politician-labels-Blair-an-imbecile-on-live-television.html
496 Gabble, it must be chilly in that nice taxpayer funded garage cum office of yours this evening. Throw another bundle of £50 notes on the fire (courtesy of ill gotten MPs expenses) and enjoy a good sneer.
487 antifrank
In my case it was the correlation between price and reputation.
Of course the reputation may have been built over time by providing a quality service, but the actual work carried out for me could have been done by any firm of solicitors. What competing firms could not have provided was the letterhead.
A half pound of butter always tastes better if wrapped in a Fortnum’s cover.
My choice however was deliberate and I have no regrets.
Gabble, could I point you to neil’s wise words at 484?
For the record, I condemn bullying in the workplace, including Mr Coulson’s. I’m not sure what you think the political or other consequences of his actions in his previous job should be. Drowning men clutch at straws, they say.
495 - I wont be outvoted next year, mark my words.
498- I had to tease you, SSI! It was irresistible. Sorry.
490, S&S - but hasn’t the GOP congressional strategy helped make the case that the Dems do NOT enjoy “total control” the way that FDR did in 1933 or LBJ in 1965? Believe that may help my team more than yours!
BTW, are you Gov. Cristie? Or in his cabinet? Or do they just send you Christmas cards AND invites to the Inaugural Ball?
470. I have to admit I’ve not watched this one very carefully other than noting a few days back on this forum about the death of Montazeri and its possibel ramifications. Then I took time out of boredom to have a look at events.
Things have a certain number of differences from last time.
1. Its wider than the obvious intellectual reformers and the students. The regular joes with moustaches have got involved to some extent.
2. The oppostion leadership is better organised, and they are organised but they are still fragmented. In addition teh killing of Mousavi’s nephew was the regimes way of saying you’ll be next…it may have the effect of making people think there is nothing to lose.
3. The regime’s reaction shows its having issues. Theyve taken to the gun very quickly and what appear to be covert killing in addition to the usual round ups. They are also not exactly showing great signs of being the guardians of Islam or indeed order.
4. There is evidence that the demonstrations are more widespread and more angry
5. Those in the front line of trying to deal with the crowds on the streets are different this time. The police are showing some evidence in some areas of being unable to handle it or simply not being willing to. The more we see the regimes own guards & militias out, the more you know some of the surrounding elements of the state are proving ineffective.
6. Where’s the army? I mean the army rather than the militias that dominate the regimes control mechanism.
The key, as ever, is momentum. The same crowds with the same riots will just tire out the wider population who the next level of support will spring from. The regime simply needs passivity, those in the opposition need some of that wider population to come onside.
The regime really had the the first set of trouble in the summer well held through a mix of brutality and inetlligent responses but the opposition figureheads didnt push on. They stepped back.
The wider world needs to get its ass in gear. It is a tricky thing to do but somewhere at some point the west must get a co-ordinated reaction. There has long been covert efforts in Iran (the regime is not making it up when it particularly focusses on the British in this regards). Ot has tools available, it needs to use them.
If we see the regime take a step back to try to calm the situation..expect it to really roll on.
494. Floater
I read the Iain Dale article but I was not sure what the entrapment involved. What’s wrong with anybody earning a living as a belly-dancer? This lady has already appeared on national TV doing the same.
There are no clues from Dale or the various emails about any intended worng-doing. If wrong-doing was intended, of course I would condemn it. Do you know what it was?
505, S&S - fair comment, old hiker!
Despite my post at 495 I must say that the moderation of the site has taken a turn for the worst. ‘Devils Kitchens’ article that I quoted from contained limited bad language but on a site like this when in quotation marks it should be permitted.
What’s more if a post is removed with no notification it makes following the thread very difficult.
510 - I think, it’s an automatic moderation thing, when the f word is used.
492. Gabble
can you hear? We are not interested in a load of old b4llocks from you and your Daily Mirror!
499- TimB, my guess is that Obama would be a VASTLY more potent and popular politician with the GOP in control of Congress. As it is, I’d say he has about a 60/40 chance of being re-elected in 2012. If Republicans ran Congress (purely hypothetical since this won’t be the case in 2012), his re-election chances would be around 90/10.
However, I don’t think anything will really chastise the Dems, regardless of what happens in 2010. Rather, as their majorities decline, so will their ability to push their agenda, which will necessarily restrain the scope of the legislation they pass.
After a few days rest - the best is back “me”
TimB, speaking of mayoral elections, what are you’re views on the recent Atlanta election?
Also, what are your views on your (gawd awful) governor? Personally think that he & his minions keep on giving seg academies a bad name. But what’s your take?
503. antifrank
If a senior Labour advisor had been found guilty of bullying a mentally ill man and was unrepentant, the outrage from the tory posters on this site would be deafening.
I am genuinely astonished that not one of you have the balls to question the position of Coulson, based on his past conduct.
490 Stars come on. Massive majority in the House yes. Big majority in the Senate yes but as was seen as long as the GOP stayed as one it was hardly comfortable in the Senate. Bet you are now glad the Hammer didn’t succeed on removing the filibuster now right.
1) I’m not a Tory.
2) I hold no brief for Andy Coulson or the Conservatives
3) It is not particularly likely that I will vote Conservative, though it remains a possibility.
4) I do believe in due process.
5) I do not believe that there is any ground for questioning the position of anyone for actions that they undertook in a previous role - is it your position that anyone who has been found by an employment tribunal as guilty of bullying should never be able to get another job?
6) The difference from the Damian McBride case couldn’t be starker - in that case, the offender was participating in a conspiracy to defame by rumour numerous opposition politicians, from the comfort of his government-paid office. Despite that, he was not sacked but allowed to resign.
As I said before, you seem to be clutching at straws.
515 - I’m not a city of Atlanta resident, so it doesn’t directly affect me. The depressing thing is that voting was pretty much on racial lines.
Regarding the governor he’s not as bad as some, that’s the best I can say…
486 SSI, S&S
The main upside I see for Obama from the passage of healthcare is that the label of ‘do nothing’, or more precisely ‘achieve nothing’, is now dead in the water. Good or bad, passage of healthcare is a huge achievement. So that may lead to an uptick in his leadership ratings.
However, I don’t believe that means anything in practical terms vis a vis upcoming issues before Congress - and they are all really congressional issues rather than presidential ones in terms of who really gets to legislate.
The sole area of issues which are really in the presidential domain - foreign affairs and security - is also one of huge and thorny challenges. But success on healthcare will not affect the players’ and spectators’ views one jot on Obama’s ability to address this set of issues.
Roger,
And that, my friend, is the persona that I post in: I can understand if you don’t like it, and I accept that. (Besides, he is.)
*sigh*
No, I don’t. I point out that:
1) he’s made a living out of the fact that he is Asian and milking the differences between British Asians and British whites,
2) he is happy to condemn the likes of me for the way in which I was brought up, i.e. my parents’ circumstances and attitudes,
3) and that he wouldn’t like it if I decided to target him because he is Asian, i.e. because of his parents’ circumstances and attitudes.
I don’t think that any of that is controversial, to be honest.
DK